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Below is an article that I wrote during the filming of my video series on Mothman. It explains my methodology for trying to figure out what “Indrid Cold” – a name that is most likely an alias – really might mean.

The meaning of “Indrid Cold” is simple. In order to approach such Mothman riddles all one needs, it seems, is a basic knowledge of any spiritual tradition – Hindu mythology, Buddhist mythology, Celtic mythology, Judeo-Christian mythology, Aboriginal or Native American mythology. In this case it turns out to be a particularly Hindu case, or at least one that uses Hindu terminology. But all of the above traditions provide ample clues for deciphering symbolic codes and “name-game” mysteries. The “superspectrum,” as John Keel termed it, has embedded itself into our very consciousness. This is reflected in our religion, our language, and our mental coding, which is itself essentially a binary electrical circuit. This loop tends to “spin” conceptual thinking toward dualistic poles such as “good” or “bad,” angelic or demonic, and so on.

The name "Indrid" bears some resemblance to the "INRI" found on images of Christ and the double-headed Eagle - a variation on the Garuda.

After having a basic understanding of one of the above mythologies, one then needs either a few coincidences to occur, or something else in one’s experience that one can draw from, in order to gain insight into the riddle. Luckily (or not), these kind of “coincidences” seem to occur fairly often in the lives of Mothman witnesses. This may be one of the reasons this phenomenon exists: to give us feedback from the universe.

For some this is a blessing, for others it is a curse. Some witnesses get so many psychic pieces of information coming at them that it tends to make them a bit paranoid; others make fast decisions and judgments, internally, which baffle others. Others cannot sense the same input… I am reminded of the fact that the Indians initially couldn’t see the ships of Columbus because their brains couldn’t process it. A shaman had to spend many days looking at where the ships were said to be in order to finally see them. Words really cannot really express… At times, when I am trying to explain my Mothman experiences and everyone is shaking their heads and thinking I am nuts or unduly obsessed, I feel like that shaman. In addition to having seen the creature myself, I have a long string of synchronicities and seemingly profound, symbolic events in my life. I sometimes wonder if Mothman witnesses aren’t each given individual “clues” to a larger puzzle. The dreams, precognitions, telepathic messages, and unusual meetings get us to closer to what is going on within us and around us. My discussions with witnesses reveal such a pattern. Witnesses such as Faye DeWitt and Marcella Bennett speak of “hunches” alerting them to potential dangers. The universe appears to be sending out information regarding specific, powerful human events. This information comes in the form of visions, sounds, messages, random coincidences, and codes.

I interviewed Keel for my documentary on Mothman, and asked him about Indrid Cold. Keel seemed to feel that much of the Cold story is fabricated. He suspects that some of the strange phone calls were a result of Indrid Cold speaking through Woody Derenberger.

The Midway Tavern in Midway, WV, where Indrid Cold used to drink his beer. Many a low-level Masonic plot was hatched here.

Having interviewed a Bigfoot contactee who feels that Bigfoot speaks to and through him, I can attest to being put off by the thought that a witness might create his own “evidence.” Still, looking at it another way, I think that it is worth trying to figure out what is behind a phenomenon whose experiencers feel that they need to “channel” for, or “telepath” to, a creature or entity. I personally feel that Derenberger may not have been a hoaxer, but perhaps a victim of a hoax. He may have even been a victim of mind control. The Air Force involvement in his case – the psychiatric interest, the weeklong “debriefing” at NASA headquarters – is a possible indicator of this.

In looking at this Indrid riddle, though, the first thing I did was to see the name “Indrid Cold” not as a name, but as a descriptor. The main word appeared to be “Cold,” with “Indrid” as a modifier. I ran some anagrams of “indridcold” and got lots of interesting little references to things from the Mothman story. But nothing solid. Then, I turned it around 180 degrees and started looking at “indridcold” not for its constituent parts, but looking at it as a constituent part of a even bigger word. I asked myself if there might be any relevance to the word “indridcold” being spelled out of larger words, and could those larger words represent potential leads, or “name-game” clues? I got a couple of odd pieces of information using these offbeat methods. Knowing that Keel had observed, in the 1960s, that most of the entities channeling through contactees had names that sounded like “synthetic fabrics,” I decided to try and fit “indridcold” into some names of petrochemical companies.

One company that I found was a subcontractor to Union Carbide. It’s acronym was IRPCO. It had employed many of the men in my neighborhood in WV. I myself worked there; I was good friends with the owner’s son. The company has now been sold and has moved its headquarters. The company’s original location was at the confluence of the Elk and Kanawha Rivers, where a bridge collapsed on Dec. 15th, 1904 – the same day of the year as the Silver Bridge collapse. The owner’s family lived on a bluff overlooking the confluence. The bluff was a lover’s lane spot that also doubled as a place to go if you wanted to see Mothman flying above the city. Psychic abductee Harriet Plumbrook had dreams of the bluff prior to ever seeing it, and feels the location is a geomagnetic source for the phenomenon. I was reminded of a story my mother told me when I was a little boy: that Magic Island, at the confluence of the Elk/Kanawha Rivers, was haunted by the ghost of a dead girl who had drowned.

Another odd reference I found was that “indridcold” fit into the full name of the Canadian wing of the chemical company that leased land on both sides of the I-64 bridge in Dunbar, WV, where the famous Tad Jones sighting occurred. That company: Union Carbide (Union Carbide Canada, Ltd.). When I “googled” Carbide’s Canadian facility to check, one of the first links to come up was in Melanson’s book about the Martin Luther King assassination. This reference stated that Union Carbide was the only entity from which James Earl Ray could have gotten the classified personnel information he used to construct his famous “Eric S. Galt” alias. The real Eric Galt was a security-cleared employee of Union Carbide, at a time when the company was making top-secret “proximity fuses” for missiles at its Canadian facilities.

Union Carbide was known for its pioneering work in handling not only “hot” materials like uranium (The Manhattan Project was fueled by Carbide, and many of the uranium mines in the Four Corners area are operated by Carbide), but extremely “cold” technologies. Carbide could “super-cool” metals like no other company of the time. It was the premier “chemical factory” in a valley where Keel was told (by Mothman witnesses) that a “chemical factory” might blow up. In the early 1960s, Carbide already had a complete simulation of the Martian landscape built so that they could test various substances and materials. Could they have a had a hand in any hoaxed moon landings? Conspiracy theorists have speculated about the role of Union Carbide in the Jonestown massacre, which occurred on land previously owned by Union Carbide, and the supposed role of Jonestown’s mind-controlled “zombie killers” in political assassinations. John  Keel was told by psychics beforehand that MLK would be shot, and tried to alert MLK to that fact. The prophecy accurately predicted the manner of the actual shooting, yet was off by one month.

I decided to do another turnabout and look at “Indrid” as the subject, and “Cold” as the modifier. This would prove to be much more beneficial at getting at the root of the “real” Indrid. The trouble, however, is that “Indrid” is not a word we know in America. I had to look for words that were similar to Indrid. After reading Ted Holiday’s work connecting dragons to flying saucers and earthworks, it popped into my head that the Hindu god “Indra” (the god of fire) might be the connection. I looked and found that, throughout the eons, “the Garuda puts out the fire of Indra.” The birdman literally consumes the fires of Indra, rendering them “cold.” The two, Garuda and Indra, are closely associated in Hindu literature. When one sees this relationship, one sees that probably the only thing on Earth that can be a cooled-down form of Indra is: the Garuda. And since Indra is no longer the real, bonafide “hot” Indra when he is cooled down and in Garuda form, he can only be properly termed something that is “like Indra” – something “Indrid” or Indridic. In essence, Indrid Cold seems to have been telling us that he was Garuda operating as Indra in  “cold” form.

Of course, nothing can really prove that Indrid Cold was not a hoax. If John Keel sensed a hoax there, there probably was. But, is the Cold story a regular hoax, or perhaps a “reverse hoax” intended to leak accurate, inside information? Regardless of whether Derenberger was manipulated by a disinformation hoax or by a truth-leak hoax, such a hoax had to perpetrated by someone who knew something about Hinduism. Was this a cryptozoological intelligence operative helping the CIA guide the Dalai Lama over the mountains to India? Very few people in the West knew much about Hinduism back then. Keel certainly knew it, since he originally put the term “Garuda” in the title of his Mothman Prophecies book. But the early cryptozoologists knew it, too. Those who traveled to Nepal to “search for the Yeti” with the Tom Slick/CIA Bigfoot expedition would have known. Slick had roots in Mothman country… Many of the UFO contactees of that era were given messages pertaining to the White Brotherhood of Tibet and the Thule Ultima, both standard fare for Nazi occultists involved in Tibetan research.

Next we have a selection from Chapter 23 of The Mothman’s Photographer III, where we look at the enigmatic Charles Manson, who grew up next to the Carbide plant in Mothman’s old stomping ground of Mound, WV. The Manson family has been in the news in recent months, as former Manson girlfriends Sara Jane Moore and Squeaky Fromme – who both tried to shoot Pres. Ford and thus bring an unelected Nelson Rockefeller into the White House – were released early from prison.

“He was great. He was unreal – really, really good. He had this kind of music that nobody else was doing. I thought he really had something great. He was like a living poet.”

-musician Neil Young, speaking about Charles Manson

“War, fascism, concentration camps, rubber truncheons [and] atomic bombs are what we daily think about, and therefore – to a great extent – what we write about (even though we do not name them openly). We cannot help this. When you are on a sinking ship, your thoughts will be about sinking ships.”

-George Orwell (1903-1950)

“The Constitution has never greatly bothered any wartime president.”

-Francis Biddle, Franklin D. Roosevelt’s Attorney General during WWII, on Roosevelt’s 1942 decision to place Japanese-Americans into internment camps.

———

Charles Manson is probably America’s most famous criminal, convicted of directing members of his “family” to commit the gruesome Tate-LaBianca murders in 1969, which effectively ended the peace movement by making it seem as if “hippies” were wildly dangerous. As time passed, researchers learned that Manson was actually not a hippie at all, but a fascist and possible police informant with dreams of a one-world government. The random “Helter Skelter” murders began to look more and more like the contract hits that Manson always implied they were, with drugs and sex looming in the background… Manson lived for at least a couple of years on my street in Mound, WV. Even in the more exhaustive Manson bios, this is usually alluded to only indirectly, embedded in the tale of his mother stabbing a patron in the head at Mound’s Blue Moon Tavern.  When his mother was on the run, Manson’s guardian was a matriarch in the Fisher family. The Fishers are friends of my extended family in the Sissonville area. While attempts have seemingly been made in the media to overlook or perhaps sanitize the Charleston connection to Manson, the connection is real. Van, the owner of “Van’s Never Closed Market” in  Mound, once stated on TV in the early 1980s that he remembered Charlie and Sara Jane Moore coming into his store together, arm in arm. The mile or so of land between Van’s and the Blue Moon Tavern straddles Blaine Island’s Union Carbide plant… The other place Manson was known to have lived in WV is the town of McMechen, along the Ohio River, upstream from Pt. Pleasant. It happens to be very close to an infamous Hare Krishna Temple and to Moundsville, a town with a haunted prison built over leveled mounds. McMechen is also close to Wheeling, where ET “believer” Budd Hopkins was raised. Wheeling’s Sterling Corp. bought and helped reconstitute the Bayer Corp. after its links to I.G. Farben and the holocaust were exposed. Wheeling was a bustling industrial town in the war years, known for its freewheeling nightlife. It could have been in Wheeling, or nearby Pittsburgh, that Manson’s purportedly promiscuous mother might have run into Judge Francis Biddle, federal prosecutor for W. Pennsylvania. In this suppressed interview with the BBC, Manson alludes to being raised by the “judge at Nuremberg.” This had to have been one of two men: Robert Jackson, whom Manson does not resemble, or Francis Biddle, whom Manson greatly resembles. Manson makes a number of interesting comments here that paint a puzzling picture of man who seems, on the one hand, to be an idealistic ecologist who cares about the planet yet, on the other hand, admits to being intimately involved in organized crime, secret societies, and – as should be obvious to anyone who looks at his forehead – Nazism and the New World Order.

Manson, Charles – “Freemansonry” Interview – 1994

Q: Somebody once said you’re the most dangerous man alive. Do you think you are?

CM: It makes no difference… All men are dangerous, although mainly to themselves. I’ve studied criminology. I’ve studied all the “ologies” from Sean Connery to the Hindus. Through time [I’ve gotten smarter. I have become more] literary. And, I speak a little Gaelic on the side…

Photo of Manson prior to attending Boys' Town. Manson's biography is hazy, confusing, and incomplete, but he would have been living in WV and hanging out with Sara Jane Moore around this time. Attempts were made to construct a public profile for Manson, even early in his youth... The tight-lipped Moore was known to go missing for days at a time, possibly with Manson. As an adult, she more or less abandoned her three kids and went missing for ten years starting in the mid-1950s. She later emerged after marrying an Oscar-winning film editor from Hollywood. The secretive Lookout Mountain editing studio was at the top of Laurel Canyon, one of Manson's favorite neighborhoods. One wonders if Manson and Moore reconnected there during the tumult of the late 1960s.

Q: You’re certainly one of the most famous people in the world.

CM: Well, there’s good news and there’s bad news…

Q: A lot of people don’t know you and your mission. Let’s talk about that a little bit.

CM: [It started] years before I got to California. I tried to tell that to the court in California, but I haven’t been able to find anybody in California yet. There doesn’t seem to be “anybody home.”

Q: Because you started in San Francisco playing the guitar?

CM: No, it started in Morehead, Kentucky in 1945…

Q: Did you ever learn to write music?

CM: No, I’ve never slowed down [enough] for that. I move awfully fast. My mind is [like] a rattlesnake.

Q: [You knew] some pretty famous musicians. Do you remember Dennis Wilson?

CM: He had trouble with the truth, because he was raised in Hollywood. Hollywood is a seedy place. Hollywood is a hard place. It’s not [what] you think it is. It’s about control. [It’s the] mind control center of the world.

Q: How did you meet him?

CM: At Elvis Presley’s house…

Q: You did some recording with him?

CM: Yes. They opened up their own house. I wasn’t into what they were doing. I rejected it because I’d just gotten out of one prison and wasn’t looking for another one. The lifestyle that they lived was pretty much controlled by [their] business manager from NYC with the red Ferrari. Did they tell you about the red Ferrari? The electricity [of political power] runs off of a brotherhood that runs off of a cross. It runs off of a piece of clover, that runs off of “666,” that runs up and down the hallways in juvenile hall in Boystown, Nebraska. The heart of man [pumps from] the Brotherhood [of] the Cross. The Brotherhood, on some levels, is very violent and very nasty and very mean. It’s a struggle for points of reality. Some people say that the Maharishi from India is the living God. I say, “No, our Father which art in heaven is the only God.” Then, there’s an argument. And the fire is thrown on me, and I burn up with that. And then… Union Carbide blows up, and a whole bunch of them burn up. [But] who’s burning who up? Where is the center of the mutiny? France, wearing the pants with Eldridge Cleaver and Huey Newton?

Here Manson seems to be referencing a global ideological battle between West and East, Christianity and Islam.  The references to the “Ferrari,” piece of “clover,”  “666,” and “Brotherhood of the Cross” seem to indicate Irish-Italian political and religious involvement, perhaps using occult front groups seeming to be “satanic…” Manson’s reference to fire being “thrown onto him” seems somehow reminiscent of both the Garuda mythology and the Philadelphia Experiment. According to Karl H., an informant in my last book, Manson liked to draw fearsome bird imagery. In addition to claiming links to the Philadelphia mob, Manson also refers to Union Carbide, France (perhaps a reference to the Masonic orders), the civil rights movement and mass mind control. Is this an oblique linking of the Jesuits to the CIA’s Operation CHAOS? It was known at the time of Manson’s interview that Pope John Paul II had worked for Solvay Chemical, which had corporate links to I.G. Farben and Carbide. Solvay now has a facility 5 minutes away from where Manson’s “uncle,” Darwin Scott, lived. Scott was brutally murdered about a year before the Tate killings.

Q: That was all [back] in those days.

CM: It’s still [happening] today. They’re all [having sex] to Michael Jackson. They’re controlling the music in the abortion clinics. Music controls little girls, you know.

Q: Did you like that the Beach Boys changed the name of your song “Cease to Exist”

CM: Not at all. You see in prison, you write songs and send them to people outside, to brothers at recording companies. When the brother’s recording company gets them, they don’t exactly use [it the way it was meant]. I wrote a song: “I know I know I know I know I know I know I know; I know I know I know I know I know I know I know…” It’s a meditation song. I send a tape to someone. They send the tape to the brother’s recording company, and then you hear the song, “Ain’t No Sunshine (When She’s Gone).”

This may be true, because the singer of “Ain’t No Sunshine (When She’s Gone)” was Bill Withers, a native of WV who may have met Manson at one time or another.

Q: So they change [the songs]?

CM: Yes… They take the catchphrases and the feeling that you put into the music. Then that becomes a part of what they call “soul.” All the sound and the soul that comes off of prison [is altered by the time] it gets to your ears. You hear the bottom part of what’s really happening on the top… All [the woman] is doing is giving up sex. She’s going to back up to her fear. A man doesn’t back up to his fear. He goes straight into his fear. We’ve got to have a one world government. We’ve got to have it, man.

Q: You were talking about the music…

CM: The whole world [makes music]. You do it automatically. For instance, you’ve got a music called “Rock and Roll.” Where does it come from? What does it mean? Do you have a level on this [microphone] that you can’t go any louder than?

Q: Don’t worry about [the volume]. You’re fine…

CM: Okay [but] how loud can I go with this? [screams loudly!] Now that’s where Rock and Roll comes from… Music comes from the Crown. Music comes from your King. Music comes from your lord. Music comes from your soul. Hollywood plays music to little girls. I don’t play “little girl” music. I play music for God. I play music for myself. Then, I come up with a song, and they [go and] change the words. I say, “Don’t change the words!” If you change the words, my shadows are running fast, man. I’m running out of monk school. I’m running out of Boystown – Father Flanagan’s in Nebraska. I’m running out of an Irish Catholic Church. I’m running from the IRA. I’m running from everyone that wants to live on the planet Earth, man. I’m running from nowhere and doing nothing. I’m all the same, on and on, as if Shakespeare was a clown.

Q: [So] Shakespeare changed it?

CM: He changed it for his little girls – for money. He compromised himself for money. You don’t compromise yourself for money. If you got a poker game you can’t win, you take your pistol and take the money. You play, and [if] you see that you can’t win, you just take it. You pull your Claymore out and do what any black pirate does: you take everything on the board and go in another direction. This [technique] is very intricate… The Black Hand that comes from the Catholic Church [and] the Romans have been using [it] for years. The Black Hand is supposedly the Hand of God from the cross that’s really upside down and comes from the Negroes and slaves that Abraham Lincoln played with.

Was this a reference to the Moorish/Egyptian underpinnings of Catholicism, or to an amoral, “pirate” intelligence unit within the Catholic Church, such as the Jesuits?

Q: Do you remember any of the famous people you [hung out with]?

CM: Yes, it was alright. I used to play around at Frank Costello’s and Abbot and Costello’s. I knew those people. I got around. That was my neighborhood. Jimi Hendrix lived 3 doors from Dennis, and Elvis lived 2 blocks [away. Still] that is like looking in somebody else’s icebox. See, here’s the thing: I’m not impressed very easily by much. I more impressed by my counselors and associate wardens, to see if I can get a guitar [here in prison]. Everything here is upside down. Everything you do goes off someone else. Humphrey Bogart and James Cagney were not real criminals. The real criminals died somewhere in San Quentin and Folsom, and the actors took them off – what we call a “take off…” Prison is a big machine. A prison is run by black inmates. It’s run by the fear of black inmates. Fear has a lot to do with music. Music has big controls that come out of Boston… They use the black people to control the music. They’ve got a lock on it from James Brown, and from the chain gang. They got a lock on it from the prison. Playing music [onstage] is not the same as “getting down” with music. Getting down with music is going into the mountains, throwing up a fire, getting the drums, and getting down. It’s getting “funky.” The Buffalo Springfield comes off the Kentucky rifle. The Kentucky rifle comes off the Queen of England [because] she comes over to Kentucky to get her horses. It is a horse’s head on the front of that Ferrari – that 200 horsepower car that the business manager drives. He’s got the hitmen on the telephone over there at the brother’s recording company. In other words, they’re in a poker game losing the house… We got into spiritual music, Indian sweatlodges, peace pipes, peyote, and mushrooms. I got the mushrooms from a mighty warrior in the underworld. I live in the underworld. There’s a lot of clarity to the underworld that would be fantasy to you. [It] really is real on other levels. You go out into the desert. You get into the mushrooms and the peyote of the Sundance. The Sundance is another place music comes from. There’s a reality in the Sundance that brings up all the music in you. It brings out all of the cross in you – all the suffering in you. It brings out all the majesty in one’s soul.

Q: What about things like Scientology?

CM: I was in prison when Dianetics first started in 1950. A lot of the guys were interested in studying ways to process the mind [in order] to clear it from past confusion – to resurrect the soul and be reborn within yourself. That’s where Scientology started. Then, they started selling it. Then it got to be The Process Church of the Final Judgment [in England]. I couldn’t go myself, but I sent some people there to do certain things – to [create] an effect. To cause an awakening – an awareness in death… See this mark on my forehead? Do you know how the occult [operates]? You get involved in all kinds of darkness running under [the surface]. It would take too long to explain it all [but, either] God or the Devil opens up – whichever one you’re going to use. [You might begin] believing [certain] things, but then the wind blows in another direction and you [end up] saying, “Woah, that hurts too much. I change my mind.” [If you’re] in the [dungeon] and you’re laying up on the rack, you’re going to do whatever they tell you to do. It’s simple.

Q: I guess we don’t know the answer to that but [are you a Satanist]?

CM: Satan? What is that? They’ve got guys play-acting that for the public. What is a Satanist? No [I’m not a Satanist.] I’m too stupid for any of that… You don’t lay with the snake, because the snake is going to eat you sooner or later.

Q: [What about] the Beatles’ song “Helter Skelter?”

CM:  [They] didn’t know what [they] were doing. “Helter Skelter” was their song. It didn’t have any particular meaning to me. The District Attorney picked up on that and made it into his trip. You’ve got to [understand] a convict’s mind… In 1944, the music was [a certain way, and] people were on that level. Say you got locked up; you were in a vacuum. If you got back out in 1950, they were singing a little faster. Then you got locked back up again. [Your contact with trends] stopped again. You got out in ’59 and people were really [rocking, but] you got locked back up and [the fun] stopped until you got back out in ’67. You went over to see the Grateful Dead, and it was [far out]. That [very process] is what I call confusion, or “helter skelter.”

Q: What does “helter skelter” mean?

CM: It just means “confusion.” The Beatles came up with it [but] they were playing for teenyboppers. I’m not a teenybopper. I liked their music; their music was okay. But my music is still on the bagpipes, you know. I haven’t lost the perspective for that…

Q: So you weren’t getting messages about “helter skelter” [from the music]?

CM [pleadingly]: Oh come on, man! Music gives everyone messages. That’s what music does. Why do I have to be some kind of maniac because I could hear something that the music says? When the music said, “Somewhere over the rainbow,” I was over the rainbow. When Kate Smith came out with There’ll Be Bluebirds Over the Righteous, I was still in Dover. I don’t think anything went wrong… If I could get to somewhere where I could write or have a tape recorder, I could explain a lot of this. It’s very difficult to explain ten or fifteen years in two or three minutes. Words only say so much. The reality of motion in prison – life and death on what they call the “mainline” – comes from handball and weightlifting, from somebody dropping weight on somebody else’s head, of somebody owing something, of a blood-family debt, of the way it burns back and forward. If Watson has something he can’t face, I go face his death for him. Then, he owes me back. Then the Frenchman takes his foils and goes off into battle for me, and I owe him one. So then I come back to Watson and I say, “You pay the Frenchman what you owe me.” He says, “How do I pay it?” I say, “Don’t ask me how. I’m not your father. Do what you’re told. Pay your debt or get off my road.” So, he pays what he has to pay, and does what he has to do. I didn’t direct him to do anything. I told him to be a man and stand up for himself. I didn’t tell him what he should do, or how he should do whatever he had to do. I [simply] said that he has to do what he has to do. Wilson knows that. The street knows that. The penitentiary knows that. And, the Brotherhood knows that…

Q: Didn’t you direct [people] to kill?

CM: I never directed traffic about anything, man. I haven’t got time for that. I’m not going to get involved. I’m not that insane. I may be crazy, but I’m not going to take a chance of putting myself back in jail. For what? You deal me the hand, I’ve got to play it. You gave me the cards [that say] I’m a “mass murderer” – a “hippie cult leader.” I’m [supposed to be] all the things that the D.A. was laying out, so that he can bring in the mafia from New York [like] Rambo in the movies. In other words, he’s got a lot more going on than Helter Skelter. Helter Skelter is just one little [scam] he’s playing. He comes back to me from Geneva and wants to be my sunshine if I’ll agree with him on his “helter skelter” theory. I didn’t have any “helter skelter” in my mind. Let me tell you something: the oven has “SS” written on it. I came out of the bake in 1954. I’m Duke on the yard. There was nobody on the yard who could beat me. They had one or two German kids that were raised in the Hitler youth movement of WWII that were very good, but they couldn’t beat me. I ruled the cigarettes. [At some point] someone had to be killed. Somebody told somebody some lies and somebody had to kill somebody. I came out of the bakeroom pushing the broom. They had this guy in the butcher shop stabbing him to death. I’m walking the line. I’m not a snitch. I don’t run and tell the cops tales. I stand on my own two feet. One of them looked over and said, “Manson, get on the point.” So I took the broom and got on the point. I was watching and thinking, “That tramp better not move for me. If he moves for me, I’m going to take him home to his mama,” you dig? He didn’t move for me and I didn’t move to him. They stabbed him to death. You [normally aren’t supposed to] kill anyone in the penitentiary kitchen, because it makes it bad for the food. It’s bad for everyone; it creates a lot of paranoia. [But] they were cutting this guy in half, trying to put him in a garbage can. They got the elevator and smashed the elevator down [on him] – trying to put him in the can. [They ended up putting] half in one can and half in another can. They smuggled him out of the kitchen. I was [the lookout]. The [guard] comes up and asks, “What happened? What did you see?” I said, “See what? What are you talking about? I didn’t see nothing man.” All of my life, I’ve been on that [same] line. I don’t ever see anything. I know nothing; I’m zero. I don’t get involved. I don’t run and tell. I protect myself. And whatever happens happens, man. People getting killed around me is no new thing. There are people getting killed in prison all the time. [It would be nice to] wear a shield, man. You’ve got all kinds of violence and fear that runs in these places. When you live a life like that, it becomes a natural thing.

Q: Did you give Tex [Watson] orders to kill?

CM: Tex was a rumpkin. He came to town. He was a “momma’s boy.” The prostitutes took his money. He said, “Can I live with you?” I said, “Can you live with me?” He said, “Yeah.” [So I said] “Let me have that pickup truck.” So he gave me an old pickup truck from Texas. I’m letting him stay around the ranch. He’s hanging around. A lot of guys like to hang around me, because I’m underground. I’m what you call “cool.” I’m what everybody tries to be. When I’m down on the street, I ride a motorcycle and I get a lot of girls. I play. That’s my road for a while, until they grab me up and put me back in the cage again. But anyway… Tex sees women lighting my cigarettes. He’s saying, “Yes, ma’am, can I open the door for you?” In other words, he’s the matriarch and I’m the patriarch. He sees the way I’m doing it. He wants to do what I’m doing, so he’ll get his money back. He went and burned the [prostitute] for five grand. He beat her for five grand. Some black guy called me and said, “You took my money. All you white brothers are together. I’m coming up there. I’m going to burn everybody up and take that ranch.” I said, “No, not around me you’re not. You [may] talk that shit to them little girls [but] when you come to me, I’ll take your hat home.” I told Tex to go down there and face that man. He said, “I can’t. He’ll kill me.” He couldn’t do it, so I had to go down there. I ended up shooting the guy and cutting some other people up. That’s the world I live in. I ride in a motorcycle group of crazy people. We’re fighting and cutting each other all the time. That’s no big thing. I’m always smart enough to get away without killing someone, because I don’t want to go to that gas chamber. I’m not going to kill anybody. If I can get away, I’m going to wiggle, jiggle and push that broom and [say] “I didn’t see anything…” There’s a place called Indian Mesa where we’d have fires and play music. We’d make big circles like you do with the stones. We’d put our souls in each other. We’d have sex. We’d do all the things that you guys are not allowed to do in your culture. In the culture I lived in, we’d throw all that out the window. I guess that’s what you would call “Satan.”

Q: That’s right…

CM: I wouldn’t call it Satan. I’d just call it “whatever.” You can call it the time of day if you want. But that’s what was happening in those days. A guy from Texas, who’s a momma’s boy, got me in trouble… Now here’s one of my sins [which] I’ll confess clearly and openly to the world. I never realized how much [power] I held with those people. I never realized how weak people outside [of prison] are. I’ve been raised up inside with these powerful guys – strong men. I’ve been amongst men all my life. I go outside and tell someone, “Come over here and sit down.” They go, “Whoops,” and sit down. How did I do that? I don’t know. They did it to me in prison. The [guard] goes, “Get over here against that wall. Put your hands up.” I learned to do what he said. So, I’m reflecting reflections that are reflected to me. I can [amplify] them… Remember when you were in school and the bully came by and said, “Are you looking for trouble?” You said, “No, no, I wasn’t looking for no trouble.” That’s calling you up. It calls your mind up to start looking for trouble. You’re not thinking about trouble until someone comes to yell in your ear. Pretty soon, you start looking for trouble [even though] you don’t know why… You’ve got [hundreds of] people running through Hollywood, playing music, smoking dope, having sex orgies, and riding motorcycles. I was just [a member of a] small music group called The Family Jams.

Q: [Did] you seduce young girls?

CM: Wait a minute! All those girls that you keep attributing to me were just girls that happened to be in the “free love” subculture. The only reason they’re still with me is because I’ve never lied to them. I don’t lie. I quit lying a long time ago.

Q: You don’t lie to us now?

CM: I’ve got no reason to… The time is done… Damn, I don’t know whether you’ll understand it or not. [Let’s say] a young kid is walking down the street… A cop comes up to him and shines a flashlight in his face and says, “Up against the wall!” This scares the kid, so he gets up against the wall. The cop says, “What are you doing out here? It’s after ten o’clock at night. Are you out here to burglarize the stores?” The kid says, “No, sir. I’m not here to burglarize the stores.” The cop is a rookie cop. He doesn’t realize that he is programming this young mind to burglarize stores. Being a juvenile delinquent, I went through that. I burglarized stores and I ended up in reform school. That’s how I figured that out, you dig? So they came and they raided the ranch. They [asked] “Are you causing trouble, Manson?” I said, “No. I’m not causing trouble, and you’re not going to program my mind to [cause] trouble, either.” Fear don’t work on me anymore. You can pile ten dead bodies up there and [let them] bleed all day. It don’t bother me one bit. I’m not affected by fear games. [However] I didn’t realize that they were setting everybody else’s minds [against] me. I didn’t realize [that I was about to become] “His Holy Majesty” [of evil]. I was just a dumb kid who had [recently] gotten out of prison. I had just done 22 years, from 1944 to 1967. I had no idea what was going on outside. I was at that ranch just like I was in the joint. I was still walking that same line that I was walking in prison. I was not [about to] break any laws. Creepy Karpis once told me, “Son, you want to stay out of jail? [Then] don’t break the law. If you don’t break the law, you don’t have to go to jail. It’s that simple.” I said, “I’ll try.” And I tried it. There are a whole lot of people who know me that will witness and tell you that I did not break the law.

Q: You had nothing to do with [the killings]?

CM: I was on the edge of everything that happened. I unknowingly affected everything that happened. But I didn’t realize the affect I was having on people. I never in a second flashed about being a “walrus.” I’ve been in the minds of millions, but I have never been in my own. I’m not in my own mind until I get outside. I’m living in the mind of the guards. I’m living in the mind of the people next to me, down the hallway. I [always have] to balance everything around me to stay alive. In prison, you have to get along with everybody [in order] to stay alive. If you don’t, you get crissed and crossed, and somebody’s going to push you over the edge.

Q: Why did the girls go to that house that night and kill those people?

CM: Alright, this is going to get heavy…. The Jewish [music bosses] rejected me – on a universal level – from Cary Grant’s apartment space, because I wouldn’t [exploit] the black people. I wouldn’t get into the middle of the [music industry] sexuality that [started] after we lost the Korean War. We had to give them Doris Day and let Rev. Moon come in [as payment. That same sexuality is now being sold] to build kibbutzes and machine guns in Israel [while] the Arabs [only] have rocks [to throw]. So when I passed on that, I fell into the Beach Boys’ [scene]. The Beach Boys are being run by the Italian Mafiosos from the East Coast. The Mexicans kicked the [Italians] out of Rosarita and told them stay out of California. They didn’t like them. When I went to the Beach Boys [about them] owing me money for music, they put me onto the Italian business manager. He said, “You get nothing. Sue me…” I said, “I won’t sue you. I’ll bomb your car and blow your house up.” He said, “I’ll call NY and the Mafia.” So, I backed off. That’s why I moved in with Denny. I was [thinking] “If you won’t pay me on one level, I’ll sneak you on another level. You’re going to pay me sooner or later because I’m that guy that always gets paid. And I always pay.” In other words, I walk a line, and it’s hard.

Q: Tell me about the other reasons why [you don’t lie now].

CM: One thought can change a million perspectives. One word changed Tex’s head. Somebody else was being called up into a negative thought by harassment from others.

Q: What do you mean by that? What happened?

CM: Well, the ranch was being raided every other day by the L.A. sheriff. Every time [authorities] would become afraid of black [riots] they’d run over and raid the white people to make themselves feel a little more powerful. When you’re white and you’re “underneath” the establishment, you’ve got to deal with all the white people in the establishment who are afraid of blacks… I don’t want to start pulling people’s covers, but all the [Hollywood stars around Polanski] weren’t as wonderful and nice as you think. There are all kinds of things happening in the darkness. How does someone [like Polanski] come from Poland to Hollywood and go all the way over the top and have [blockbusters like] Valley of the Dolls? I don’t play on the level of little girl music. I play on the level [where you] flat out see Christ dying on the cross. In other words, it’s scary. It’s really, really far out. A lot of people try to copy [it] but it’s got to come from the soul – from certain levels of the mind… Your mind is a pattern. If it gets [interrupted, you] go crazy. When you open up the soul, you open up the hole in the soul.

Q: Great [but] we’ve still got a pile of bodies in this house. How did they get dead?

CM: The [Oriental] came up to me and said, “You must be [the leader of The Family].” I said, “Get away from me with that.”

Q: Who’s The Oriental? Do you remember his name?

CM: A blond-haired, blue-eyed Oriental came to me and [said] “This music is mine, you little bitch. I’ll take your heart out of your chest, tramp.” Terry Melcher (Doris Day’s son) had sent this clown over to me. To Terry Melcher, Rev. Moon was “the man.” He’s not the man to me. Put [Rev. Moon] in the mainline of San Quentin, and he’s not the man [anymore]. Put him over on death row and he’s not the same guy he was in the clown outfit, playing some game. There’s a lot of men on this road. Don’t touch what you don’t even know exists.

Q: So, it’s got something to do with Terry Melcher…

CM: The Oriental came there wanting to fight. I told him I didn’t want to fight. I ducked him and ran out behind the barn. Somebody else fought him. I [ended up] putting [a canvas bag] over his head. I laid him down and asked, “Do you want me to cut your head off? I [can] take your life right now.” I got him right up to the point of taking his life then said, “Look man, I don’t want to go to Death Row for you. I don’t want to go to San Quentin for you.” He said, “Stay out of the music or cut my head off.” I said, “Go back to your wife and get under her bed and beg her for forgiveness. Because if I take your head, it won’t be where anybody will know it.” And I said, “Now get.” I ran him off. But when I ran him off, the war didn’t end.

Q: But we’ve still got these dead people in this house. Everyone points to [you].

CM: That’s because the DA told them that. He told them the Helter Skelter [story].

Q: So you didn’t send them [to the Tate-Polanski house]?

CM: I didn’t send them anywhere. I’m not the director. I don’t send people places.

Q: It wasn’t for Helter Skelter? You weren’t going to start a big revolution?

CM: [I was in prison for] 25 years. I [have almost] no intelligence. Doesn’t it make any sense to anybody [that maybe] I wasn’t [the leader]?

Q: But what you’re saying now isn’t making a lot of sense to a lot of people.

CM: You can’t just explain it [easily]. It’s not that simple. There [had been] two to three years of sex orgies, and fights [around those sex orgies]. When you open up a sex orgy, what happens? You get 4 or 5 bulls in the same ring [and] all the bulls start banging on each other. You get all kinds of fights. Outlaws are always fighting and killing each other. This ain’t no new thing where I live, man.

Q: So, you’re saying the people in the house were outlaws. too?

CM: The only thing that made any difference is that [Sharon Tate] happened to be an actress. If she hadn’t have been an actress, nobody would have even heard about it. And probably no one would have gotten busted… At the L.A. morgue, they bring in [dozens of] bodies every night. In other words, “that’s life.” People are killing all the time.

Q: They didn’t go [kill] for you?

CM: They did not go for me.

Q: I’m going to accept for a moment that they didn’t do it for you, okay? So I’m asking myself, “Why did they do it?”

CM: They did it because they had to do it.

Q: They did it because they had to do it? They had a beef with those people?

CM: No, life pushes them to do that. Life pushes them, and it’s got to be done. It’s got nothing to do with personality. It’s not me.

Q: Of course it has to do with personality.

CM: What am I? God?

Q: If you [are saying] that they didn’t do it because of a beef with those people, you’re almost joining up with Bugliosi, because you’d be saying it was done at random.

CM: All Bugliosi had was a bunch of murders and a bunch of people. He wanted to win [the case]. He took advantage of it completely. Let’s face it, everybody in this world is out for number one. Everybody uses everybody else, any way they can. He wasn’t doing it for the betterment of humanity, because he doesn’t give a shit about humanity…

Q: But if it had anything to do with it being Terry Melcher’s house once…

CM: Yes, it was Terry Melcher’s [former] house. People at that ranch were mad at Terry Melcher because he didn’t [sign us to a music contract, and because] he sent somebody over there to fight. He caused some trouble. He almost got some other people killed. Some people put their life on the line because of Terry Melcher. Terry Melcher didn’t even know about it. No one ever told him about it. This is the first time I’ve ever even brought it up. A lot of that poison goes under the bridge. I just forget it, and let it go. Because it doesn’t matter… To dig it up only brings up more negativity. The time is done. The crimes are over. It went through the changes. [All I can say now is] give me my rights. Give me the rights you didn’t give me [at trial].

Q: Some people say you should get a new trial.

CM: If you don’t give me a new trial, I’ve got no rights at all. I’ve been kept in handcuffs for 23 years. They can do anything they want. They take my mail any time they want. They do anything they want to me. Where does that put you? You’ve got no rights [either]! It all comes back to the King. You’ve only got the right to do what the King tells you to do. The rights go to the King. You know who the king is? King George, who is from Ohio, you dig? In other words, we’re in this world together. Don’t put it all on me and leave me locked up the rest of my life. Be responsible for your part of it.

Was Manson referring here to former Pres. George H. W. Bush, who was from Ohio and descended from British royalty? If so, how did Manson come to know these relatively obscure facts? I have often joked that Charles Manson and George W. Bush have similar speech patterns and somewhat resemble each other. Could they be related? There have long been rumors that Manson was associated with the Solar Lodge of the Ordo Templi Orientis, which was founded by Aleister Crowley – possibly Bush’s grandfather. In the next section, Manson alludes to using a sword as a power object, not unlike the SE Asian shamans with their rattling Garuda swords. He also mentions spending time in Mexico City, where famous patsies James Earl Ray and Lee Harvey Oswald also visited.

Q: If you were ever going to have another trial, you’d have to go into court and give reasons why those people were killed.

CM: [It’s just] semantics. I didn’t push them. They did what they wanted to do. The only thing I did [was] hang a Confederate sword in the kitchen. I said, “Don’t lie. Anybody at this ranch, don’t lie. You lie, the sword might jump off and come and get you.” But I never had anything to do with directing traffic. I don’t know how many ways it can be said. Give me my rights in a courtroom. You’ve had a little time to listen to me talk. Do I sound like I’m incompetent? Why did they take my rights in a courtroom? Because Bugliosi was scared to death… I knew what had happened. I could have taken it apart and explained it. There was nobody in that family that wasn’t willing to tell the truth. All of them said, “Yes, I did it to stop the war.” You’re saying, “It’s all Charlie’s fault.” [But] I didn’t write the songs. That’s not my generation. My generation was Bing Crosby, not the Beatles. I was Charlie Tuna in the penitentiary during the 1960s. I was in Mexico City in the 1950s. I wasn’t even in the U.S. I was in jail south of the border.

Q: There was a story that you went to the house after the killings. Did you?

CM: No, and do you know [where that came from? My] lawyer, Fitzgerald [colluded with] the D.A. Why? Because [selling out is] easy. That’s why the Reverend Billy Graham’s daughter is having Italian babies right now. [That’s why Protestants become] Catholic. The Queen of England is [practically] doing it with Gandhi, a convict out of prison. Hitler [was an ex-con]. All [ex-cons] are in the same spot I was in when I got out. Fitzgerald read up on the law and [found] that the only way they could keep from giving me a trial was to prove that I was in the house when, or after, someone was killed.

Q: Okay. So you didn’t [go to the house]?

CM: No.

Q: But somebody did. Somebody went back to the Cielo Dr. house after the killings. Somebody on the other side of the canyon heard people in that house, at 4:00 in the morning – 4 hours after the killings – having an argument. Who do you think they were?

CM: Probably the maid. Maids do a lot of things. Maids get around a lot, you know.

Q: No, she didn’t get in until later on. [Plus maids] don’t move a lot of bodies around.

CM: You are an intelligent being. [Listen, it’s all] rumor. There’s not a cockroach, rabbit, or fox in that town that I don’t know. There’s not a raccoon or rat in the sewer pipe that I don’t know. I tell you, nobody was in that house from that ranch.

Q: So somebody from outside the ranch?

CM: That house was randomly [chosen] by mistake. It just was there, man. The whole thing jumped from the soul. The guys took it off and decided what they wanted to do. There was no direction. [Say] we’re standing in a circle, and it’s hot. Someone comes in with an orange sweater. Somebody says, “Man, I sure wish we had something cold to drink.” Someone says, “How about some orange juice?” Someone else says, “Alright.” Whose conspiracy is it to go get the orange juice? The guy with the orange sweater? The guy who said it was hot? The guy with the air conditioner? Who are we going to blame it on? Let’s blame it on somebody we can get away with blaming it on! Let’s blame it on some convict who ain’t got no money. Let’s blame it on somebody with no education. [As soon as] Bugliosi saw me [he knew] I was custom fit for his ambition. When he got what he wanted, he moved from New York City to Hollywood. [He imagined himself as] Rambo in the dune buggy with the machine gun. [He imagined] himself being on Rat Patrol, with the black box [and] the helicopter. [He imagined] himself as Tom Selleck [fighting] the Blackfeet Indians, playing all the games [of the old West]. The whole thing was a play – a [drama]. A game that [some] children got stuck in. This is important.

Q: There’s [obviously] more to you than just the murders. But I tell you… All of these people all over the world, when they hear your name, they just think, “Sharon Tate.” That’s all they know about you. So [your story is that] Bugliosi comes along and dumps it on you. It wasn’t your fault – it just happened around you. You once said that you weren’t even there – that you were in San Diego that night. Is that true?

CM: [Yes] I got a ticket in San Diego.

Q: How come you got a ticket? Did anyone else see it?

CM: I got a ticket for driving in a milk truck. It was an old raggedy truck. Deputy Schramm, Highway Patrol, gave me a ticket. But, they moved me to the East Coast. The D.A. has the power of the Supreme Court. The court system in the U.S. needs a lot of work if it’s ever going to get back on its feet. It needs a lot of readjusting. The D.A. has the arbitrary power to indict anyone. He can control time. That’s the reason Bugliosi said I stopped his watch. Actually, he stopped his own watch. But he keeps blaming it on me because he [can]. I got a note from him from Geneva, Switzerland [asking me to] compromise with him, because he was beginning to see the “immediacy of the soul.” Let me say this to all of you: the soul moves things beyond our comprehension. We can’t blame one human being for the Second World War. We’re [probably] going to keep blaming Hitler, but Hitler was just [another] person who was thrown into the world…

As you may recall, the 11:11 phenomenon visibly introduced itself into the Mothman scene in late 2006, when the sighting of a government van with the license 11-1L seemingly portended two tragic deaths and led local investigators to ponder certain questions: Who were the men in black in the van seen near Akron? Were they associated with the 1111 Independence Ave. address in the Chapel Hill Mall area of Akron, once an Indian sacred area? To get more answers, I recently made a second trip to Ohio to check out this Akron site, as well as the Mason, OH area, where I felt the famous Jesuit scrolls – regarding Egyptian tribes in Ohio – may have been hidden. The scrolls are said to have been the creative impetus for infamous Mason (and probable Moor) Joseph Smith to start the Mormon religion.

Before I got to 1111 Independence Ave., I had to pass through downtown Akron. Needing a short break, I stopped at the art museum. While strolling around the block, I discovered an empty lot amongst the tall buildings. It had obviously once been an ornate structure of some kind, possibly one of the first buildings in town, but all that was left were two Greek columns and the sign “United 1 Commerce Center.” Oddly, there were four 1’s clearly visible at the site: the two columns, a 1 on the sign, and a similarly styled 1 on the very top of the building next door, which faced the now empty lot. 

Four 1's seen across from Chase and Federal Bldg. in Akron. Information about this probable Masonic site is scarce.

The new buildings at 1111 Independence Ave., which look like "111L" from the air (with the "L" seemingly underlined for emphasis).

Why Mothman would also be seen there, soon after the buildings’ completion, is a mystery. Since the sighting occurred up the road past Indian Mountain, on the way to Kent State Univ., I figured that maybe the phenomenon was pointing towards Kent State – that perhaps there was some Masonic connection between the Mothman conspirators of 1966 and the Kent State shootings. It has been said that the National Guard engaged in unusual Masonic-like chanting and marching just prior to the shootings. The whole thing seemed like a ritual sacrifice. Independence Ave. is very close to a gorge in the Cuyahoga River.

Both sets of buildings at 1111 Independence Ave. This was once a sacred Indian area overlooking the Cuyahoga River. Mothman was seen a mile or two north of here last month.

The Cuyahoga, which has caught on fire several times due to industrial pollution, runs by Indian Mountain, Kent State, and the Army’s massive Ravenna Ammunition Plant on its way to Cleveland, where the Rockefellers began polluting it in the late 1800s.Indians were drawn to gorges and falls, and often built their mounds there, as in Mound, WV and Mason, OH. Mason, OH, in the southern part of the state near Cincinnati, is an interesting place. It is one of the most quickly developing industrial areas in the country, and is home to King’s Island Amusement Park as well as Ft. Ancient, a famous ancient Indian site along the mound-encrusted Little Miami River. Mason was founded by a William Mason from Palmyra, Tennessee. He originally named the town Palmyra, too, probably in honor of the Middle Eastern roots of Masonry. Palmyra, NY, was where Joseph Smith started his whole Mormon gig, so it made me wonder if the scrolls had been found in the Little Miami gorge near Ft. Ancient. Other name game clues in the Mason area pointed to Egyptian and/or Moorish influences, such as the names of towns and establishments like “Cowan,” “Morgan,” “Lamb,” “Morrow,” and “Lebanon.” I was intrigued by the fact that the supposed finder of the scrolls, Solomon Spaulding, was from Conneaut, OH, which is in the upper NE corner of the state, and he was said to have found the scrolls along “Canute Creek” in “the Ohio Valley.” Spaulding’s publisher had shown the scrolls to Joseph Smith.

The Masonic "1" used as a primary logo for chapters in Ohio. Note resemblance to older buildings at 1111 Independence Ave.

While in Mason, I saw two different tractor trailers with the odd logo of a trucking company called “Conn West,” which carried Masonic symbols. Perhaps Conn West, which is actually based in northern Ohio, had something to do with “Conn East,” or Conneaut? It wasn’t until I returned home that I found that Conneaut, which is along Lake Erie, is actually not that far from the sources of the Ohio River. Interestingly, there is a long serpentine wall at Ft. Ancient that looks both like a bird head with a long neck and human sperm. 

The Birth of the Sun God, Ra. Note "111L" depicting what seem to be genetic lineages of the characters involved. From a birdman we see a progression to an olive-skinned human who worships a bird god ensconced in a Moorish crescent "boat" altar with four 1's in front.

Synchronistically, those two seemingly disparate subjects are alluded to in an Egyptian painting showing the Birth of the Sun God, Ra, which implies that there is some genetic relationship between the Sun God (depicted as bird) and humans – similar to the Annunaki legends of the Sumerians. Eerily, the painting seems to depict genetic lineages inside the symbols “111L.” Another possible aspect of the four 1’s is that, in addition to being symbolized by four ornate columns (as in George Washington’s Masonic apron), it may have been symbolized in funerary rituals. For instance just as I finished typing this blog, I watched a show about the Windover bog mummies found in Florida. It seems that 7000 years ago, these ancient Americans buried their dead by covering the body with cloth and pushing the assemblage underwater using four wooden posts – i.e., a water burial embodying the feminine aspect of Moorish cosmology. It seems that the symbology on Washington’s apron – which originated in Egypt – also found its way to America several millennia before. To put the nail in the coffin, so to speak, the DNA of the bodies was analyzed by Joseph Lorenz, then of Cornell Univ., now of Central Washington Univ. According to Lorenz, the DNA shows that these inhabitants came from Europe. They do not share characteristics with later Indians. Since we know that Europeans’ DNA originally came from Africa, this is tantamount to saying that the Indians of Florida in 5000 B.C. were African. Since people aren’t allowed to say this outright on TV, the producers tried to imply that the DNA samples must have been contaminated by workers who dug up the bodies – a ridiculous, racist confabulation that, unfortunately, is all too typical of today’s “modern” anthropologists. A facial reconstruction of one of the skulls clearly shows that they looked African. To find out more about this fascinating subject, check out my recent interviews on Think or Be Eaten. Scroll down to shows 47 and 48:

http://thinkorbeeaten.com/theknoll/radio.html

I just returned from the Mothman Festival in Pt. Pleasant, WV, where I spoke on recent developments in the Mothman world (special thanks to the guys at Ghostly Talk Radio for recording the events and for allowing me to change my speaking time). In the week prior to the event, a synchronistic thing happened. While packing up and moving my house, I found a paint can key, which is used to open paint cans and also soda bottles. I began wondering why these two functions were included in the same tool. I had seen the tool even as a young boy, so I knew that they had been around for decades. I figured it had to do with allowing painters to open beer or soda bottles while on break.

The venerable Painter's Key, which has so enriched the scions of Big Oil. A symbol similar to this was crucial in a eugenics tinged episode of Millenium. It is also very similar to the logo of Key Bank, owned by the Rockefellers.

I thought back to earlier this summer, too, when I had researched ways to buy off-brand paints to save money (the paint sellers were telling me that recent price increases were due to the price of oil). I discovered that several brands were manufactured in Cleveland, original home of the Rockefellers and Big Oil. The Rockefellers most likely control the paint industry due to the necessity of using oil in all paints. Also, the Rockefellers probably control the soda industry, too, which would explain why paint can openers also open soda bottles. That way, they kill two marketing birds with one stone. I won’t even get into the fact that Osama bin Laden reportedly controls a key element of all sodas, namely gum arabic. There’s no way the big cola companies don’t know the whereabouts of Osama, since they have to pay him all the time for his gum arabic.

The synchronistic aspect of the paint can key is that about an hour after mulling these things over, I watched an episode of Millenium. In that episode, a symbol eerily similar to the paint can key is found on the body of several suicide victims. These victims are all genetically engineered women who are killing themselves because their mad scientist “father” is about to die of lung failure. Actor Brad Dourif, originally from West Virginia, plays a conspiracy theorist in the episode who, in the end, runs off with the remaining women to continue their Nazi-like experiments in hiding. There are several episodes along this theme in Millenium, many of which seem to tie into the Rockefeller-Nazi shenanigans seen so often in the study of Mothman events.

Before reaching Pt. Pleasant, I landed in Columbus, OH. Driving away from the airport, I noticed that the Iron Mountain Corporation has a large new facility in Columbus. Many readers will recognize this as the same Iron Mountain that was originally spawned in NY by the Rockefellers in their quest to dominate the nuclear industry. Nowadays, Iron Mountain is flourishing within the new data-storage industry. They sometimes “lose” data from their white vans, unfortunately, so one could say also that they are into “data-mining” as well. We just don’t know exactly who is doing the mining yet… Another place I drove by is the original location of Jeffrey Steel, which has been under dispute for some time because of all the pollution there. Even though the land is polluted, the city has agreed not to fine the new owner if suits are filed later. A nice gesture from the City… The Jeffrey family is said to be the family that originally gave the Bush family their start in Columbus…

Another place I drove through before getting to Pt. Pleasant was Midway, WV, home of the notorious Indrid Cold. I was shocked to see that in the few short months since I first publicized the fact that arch-Mason George Washington once owned the town, the Red House estate to which he was connected has been turned into the City Hall for the adjoining town of Eleanor. The renaming of this landmark further obscures his connection to the area. One would think that locals would want the Washington connection heightened, not obscured, so the whole thing is odd. By the way, the Eleanor police station is where Woody Derenberger would go to pick up packages for his mysterious “boss,” whose identity still remains a secret.

Before heading to the festival, I spent some time with my sister Loretta at her famously haunted home in Tornado, WV. She lives very close to a street called Millenium Way, along the Coal River. The Coal River was the first major industrial thoroughfare in WV, as it was used to bring coal into Charleston that was to be turned into oil. Yes, that’s right; the first industrial use of coal was as a precursor for oil. If you put it under enough pressure, you can squeeze a lot of oil out of it. West Virginia was thus the first state to mass produce oil. There are dams along the Coal which date back to the mid-1800s. The coal train still runs alongside the river today, ferrying bituminous from the southern coalfields. Interestingly, the mouth of the Coal is called “Indian Head,” indicating that it was once a major Indian settlement. The mouth of the Coal was also the site of one of the pivotal battles of the Civil War: the Battle of Scary Creek. There, the South gained its first significant victory.

Scary, WV, near the mouth of the Coal River. One wonders if the name derives from the many creatures seen in the area.

Across the river from the mouth of the Coal is Institute, WV, where Carbide/Farben carried on the tradition of “making oil” during WWII by manufacturing synthetic rubber and oil for the U.S. military and, it seems, the Nazis. This is where the intriguing Tad Jones UFO sighting occurred, as covered by John Keel in The Mothman Prophecies. While relaxing in front of a fire in my sister’s backyard along the Coal, she informed me that she had a late-night Man in Black encounter when she was only 4 yrs. old. This would have been 1950, exactly when John Keel said West Virginia UFO contactees were being studied intensely by the Army. My sister says the MIB went through all of her dresser drawers while she pretended to be asleep. He was thorough and methodical, and not interested in her in the least. He was obviously after something. This immediately made me think of my father’s potential involvement in the Philadelphia Experiment. No doubt they were tracking anyone who had been at Norfolk, in order to make sure they were not hiding documents or other information that might spill the beans.

My dad's Carbide I.D. Note the three pyramids in the background, an emblem of the Masons.

When I finally got to Pt. Pleasant, another interesting synchronicity occurred involving the number 11, a process I mentioned in my previous post. Actually, it didn’t happen to me, but to a surprise guest who showed up at the festival. He was the second boy I knew who lived in the infamous “Mothman vortex” house on Woodward Drive. His name is Steve Slack. I had not seen Slack in probably 20 years, and he was not aware that I was coming to the festival. His reason for being there is that he now lives in Pt. Pleasant. He is a long-time riverboat captain on the Ohio, and living in Pt. Pleasant is convenient for him. Slack had moved into the Woodward Drive house in the late 1960s, right after Tommy Burnham had moved out. Interestingly, Slack was present at my house in 1973 when my sister accidentally took the photo of what we now think was a Garuda looking in the kitchen window.

The only known possible photo of Mothman (looking in lower left of window), taken in 1973. I had just seen a shadowy entity coming out of tree earlier that week.

The entity had apparently followed me home after I had seen it at Slack’s house earlier that week. Slack was standing next to my sister when she snapped the photo. During my talk at the festival, Slack was in the audience, and he raised his hand to make a comment. He stated that he has been plagued by the number 11 for many years. He will wake up in the middle of the night and it will be 1:11, and so on. He asked me what I thought of it, and I went into the details mentioned in my previous post about the Masons, George Washington, and how two of my watches had stopped at 1:11 just a couple of weeks before. Seeing Slack at the festival was a pleasant shock. His words were further evidence that almost everyone on Woodward Lane was affected by the phenomenon in one way or another. 

Speaking of my watches stopping, several locals came up to me with theories attempting to explain why the watches had stopped. First off, they were incensed with the actions of the bombastic Col. J. Platypus Maddoxtopus, Ph.DDS (a pseudonym), also known as “The Galaxy’s Greatest Cryptozoologist®,” and his scientific cohort, Dr. Germaine Noordeman Quark (also a pseudonym). J-Plat and Quark had gone onto various national talk shows and, in a clear display of poor taste, said “bad” things about John Keel immediately after his death. Rather than celebrate the deceased person’s achievements – as is typically done in the wake of anyone’s passing (no matter how despicable they were in life) – J-Plat and Quark ignored Keel’s groundbreaking work and wonderful sense of humor and, instead, tried to paint him as a paranoid, isolated, antisocial figure. This is merely a continuation, of course, of the passive-aggressive attacks they have launched at him throughout his career. It’s just that, in this case, no one could believe they would stoop so low as to do it again at his electronic wake. The locals in Pt. Pleasant seemed to feel that the stopping of my “Tour de France” and “Coleman” watches was an indication that J-Plat and Quark might be some sort of Masonic operators manipulating the Mothman-UFO-cryptozoology scene. Locals cited J-Plat’s “omnipresence” in the media, his twisting of the original Mothman Curse from one of “Indians vs. Whites” to one of “Mothman vs. Mothman researchers,” and his propagation of hoaxes and kitsch over the years. A couple of them seemed to feel that J-Plat was in cahoots with the host of the “Ghost to Ghost” program – i.e., that Ghost to Ghost only  interviews paranormal researchers, like Maddoxtopus, who take a limited, politically safe “cryptozoological” approach that supports the status quo. True tales of a benevolent, perhaps Moorish, deity are not allowed on a show that sees our country as controlled quite nicely, thank you, by a Masonic elite engaged in an epic battle with the descendants of the Moors in the Middle East (i.e., Muslims).

My Coleman watch, which stopped at the same exact time as my Tour de France watch.

As some sort of evidence that Mothman might now be protecting the legacy of John Keel, I was told that on the first night of the festival, there was a mysterious technical failure that ruined the world premiere of a documentary film put together by one of J-Plat’s seeming proteges, Jason Bates Spock (a pseudonym). Spock had spent 6 years making and hyping the film only to see its premiere go down in flames. Money and assistance had been given to Spock from a college in D.C. connected to the intelligence establishment. Every wheel that could have been greased for “his” project had been greased, including spots on Ghost to Ghost early on, long before the film was ever edited. The bogus message that Mothman is just another cryptozoological oddity, with no special powers, had been blocked. Was the premiere’s failure an example of the “Mothman Curse” in action? Some locals thought so. Those who saw it later said that it is no different than the others, a “commercial” venture that merely looks at the dramatic, titillating “surface” of the situation – perfect for drawing advertisers. After the theater emptied out, J-Bate was seen arguing with a woman in the middle of Main Street, seemingly inebriated (although we don’t know this for sure). The police were apparently called, however they were busy with a fistfight occurring outside another bar down the street. It was a wild night and I’m sorry I missed it… I haven’t seen the film, which Spock falsely claimed on Ghost-to-Ghost was the only film to carry extended interviews with Mothman witnesses. Perhaps Spock’s most serious mistake was agreeing with the host that Mothman was dangerous and tried to “attack” witnesses. Any archetypal protector deity would naturally take offense to this… In the Mothman’s case, he only seems to “attack” ignorance, a state of mind often created when elite conspirators attempt to suppress others. Mothman only uses psychological means in revealing the truth: through word, image, and the mind-blowing manipulation of space and time – which includes “technical malfunctions.”

Close-up of window with possible Garuda looking in. The Garuda is known in Asia as a tireless defender of the people - of all that is good - in the timeless battle of "good" vs. "evil."

As many of you know, I have been following certain name-game and number threads throughout my research. One of these, as discussed in The Mothman’s Photographer III, is the “11/11″ mystery. These four numbers add up to 4, of course – another number that comes up a lot. For instance, we had a rash of sightings of four Mothmen (”The Four”) in the last couple of years. In 2006, the “11/11″ mystery reared its head when a fellow Mothman researcher saw a van near Cleveland with the license plate 11-1L. He and I were looking into the claims of a woman in the area who claimed to have experienced a multitude of paranormal events. Although she had declined my offer to film her testimony on video, this other researcher had gone to visit her. As he was leaving the area, a strange van, which he felt contained possible Men in Black, had driven alongside him for quite a while on the interstate. Tragically, a week later, two people close to the researcher both died – on 11/11/06. As this was happening, he and I, as well as Mothman experiencer Harriet Plumbrook, were receiving blank phone messages from the number “(000)000-0000.”  

MIB van seen enroute to Akron with the government license plate "11-1L." A week later, two people close to the witness died, on 11/11/06. A mysterious phone call, perhaps from the MIBs themselves, led to the address 1111 Independence Ave. in Akron.

Oddly, the same weekend Adam Gorightly and I were having our White MIB/Squirrel encounters last June (see earlier post), Harriet woke up outside of her house, in the wee hours, with cuts on her wrist – an event that symbolically echoed the name of one of Indrid Cold’s cohorts, “Terry R. Wriste.” The “tearing of the wrist” is thought to be a Masonic symbol. Synchronistically, that same weekend I was told by plant expert Louise Lacey that she had found 11 sets of different plant species on top of Sedona, Arizona’s most sacred hill. There were only 22 plants on top, with two versions of each species present – the 11/11 motif in another form. Louise, Adam, and I visited the “runways” of Morgan Territory that weekend, where we discovered that the original inhabitants, the Volvon Indians, had worshipped a Mothman-like creature called “Molluk.” Yes, that would be the same creature represented by the Republican’s Great Stone Owl in Bohemian Grove… By the way, Harriet’s father was Swedish, was a Mason, and had intelligence connections. One wonders if Masonic/intel groups are still tracking Mothman experiencers to this day, or if experiencers like Harriet are simply manifesting new clues in physical form. According to Harriet, these cuts have appeared before, and they always seem to come in sets of approximately 10. When I asked her if there could be 11 of them, she said that it is possible; she didn’t think to count them each time it happened. There appearance seems to be part of a periodic revelatory pattern, which signals the experiencer to notice clues.

Just last night, I opened The Mothman Prophecies to a random page and found that Indrid Cold’s name was repeatedly misspelled by a major UFO organization as Indrid “Kuld.” Keel thought that this was most mysterious. Since “kuld” typically translates as “gold,” and “Indrid” relates to both Sweden and the fire god, Indra (who battles the Garuda or Mothman), an interesting set of possibilities arises as to why Indrid and his buddies chose their particular aliases. If Indrid’s full name means “hot gold,” then the recovery – during Mothman – of a golden sphere in Ripley, WV (which resisted high temperatures) becomes more prescient. Was gold merchant Fred Crisman of the CIA involved in the area, perhaps with Indrid Cold? Were the golden spheres related to the Nazi Bell weapon that one suspects was being developed in Institute, WV? Are Harriet’s cuts – their relationship to the “tearing of the wrist” – indirect proof that it was Indrid Cold who came to her house in 1968, in order to “investigate” the attempt made on her father’s life? When I asked Harriet her opinion of the possible photo of Indrid Cold (see earlier post), she stated that the man looks like he might be a member of the family of Jack Bruno, the mobster who lived next door to her. Bruno disappeared after entering the penal system following his conviction for racketeering. According to the investigating FBI agent, Harriet’s dad was mistakenly car-bombed instead of Bruno. It is possible, however, that it was really Indrid impersonating an FBI agent, as the FBI agent drove the same kind of car as Indrid.

My researcher friend recently told me about another event that had happened around the same time. Soon after he had seen the MIB van and the deaths had occurred, he had gotten a strange call from a number in Akron, Ohio, which is more or less where he had been when he encountered the MIB van. When he traced the number to a physical address, he found that it was 1111 Independence Ave. in Akron. He thought that this was highly synchronistic, and he was right. But there was more… When I did a Google search of the address, I found that it was at the back of a mall that had originally been an Indian sacred spot. As I found with the Grand Mound in Seattle, these spots often have a complex magnetic field – high and low frequencies mixed together. This can cause a wide range of paranormal effects on the human mind, from seeing entities to gaining synchronistic insights. Most amazingly, there are two buildings at 1111 Independence, and both look like the number “1″ from above. They form the number 11 or, if looking at them upside down, the letters “TT.” Check it out next time you are surfing the web…

The buildings at 1111 Independence Ave. in Akron, which are located at the back of Chapel Hill Mall, a former sacred Indian site.

Now, to make this a little more complicated, one hears stories about Masonic children having their births arranged for 11/11. Marjorie Cameron, wife of occultist and rocket scientist Jack Parsons, claimed that her birth was arranged for that date. The notorious Charles Manson was born on 11/12 [note in comments section that Adam Gorightly pins the date at 11/11]. If Manson were the illegitimate son of a high-level Mason – as one suspects – perhaps there was some controversy over whether or not to arrange his birth for 11/11. This may have resulted either in his being born a day late, or a cover story being created to make it seem like he was born a day late. At any rate, Manson lived for a time in WV on, or in close proximity to, land that was once owned by George Washington, a 33rd degree Mason. Indrid Cold also lived on land once owned by Washington, and there is speculation that Washington may have also owned the land on which Pt. Pleasant’s TNT Area – “home” of Mothman – was later built. Washington may have even been responsible for the murder of Chief Cornstalk, which instigated the “Mothman Curse” on Pt. Pleasant, as he was probably the chief U.S. military authority in Virginia at the time. The symbol most associated with Washington is the obelisk, which indirectly ties him to the Egyptian queen of obelisks, Hatshepsut, whose mummy was recently identified. Hatshepsut worshipped the goddess Mut, whose name and symbology correspond with entities seen on Woodward Drive. When one looks at George Washington’s Masonic apron, one sees a peculiar Masonic symbol: four columns at each corner of a square platform. The platform is depicted with more visual perspective than usual, allowing the columns to be read as four number 1’s with a slight space between: 11/11! Now we can begin to understand the reason 11/11 was chosen as a date for Masonic ops. And this symbolism seems to have bled over into Christianity, too, for the four columns may relate to the Bible’s mysterious koan about the “four angels at the corners of the Earth.” As my grandfather, Ed Gibson (a conspiracy theorist and general skeptic) used to say: “For there to be angels at the four corners of the Earth, the Earth would have to be square and flat, now wouldn’t it?”

George Washington's Masonic Apron: note four columns that read as "11/11." Other symbols on the apron will be familiar to fans of the show "Millennium" - the follow-up to "The X-Files." The beehive-shaped symbol at the top actually looks very similar to the purported Nazi Bell weapon, one of which may have been recovered at Kecksburg, PA just a year before Mothman.

One likely Masonic operation was the Centralia, WA massacre of 11/11/1919. Even though it could never be proved who shot who first, the deaths of five American Legion veterans on that day was erroneously spun in the media, sparking off a vicious, nationwide crackdown on labor unionists. The Wobblies were accused of shooting the Legionaires in cold blood, leading to mass arrests (such as the Palmer raids) and, in some cases, lynchings of innocent labor organizers. Although it was later shown that the Legionaires had attacked the Wobblies first, the damage to Labor was done, leading to greater hardships for the working class during the ensuing Great Depression. Were the Masons involved in the fight against decent wages? Interestingly, I received a notice on Aug. 12, 2009 that a bookstore in Centralia wanted to buy my copy of a rare book about the incident, The Wobbly War. As many of you know, Aug. 12th was Aleister Crowley’s favorite occult power day, and we have seen covert ops every year during that week of August. Last year, it was the Bigfoot Body and the Texas Chupacabra, both of which turned out to be hoaxes… Like most paranormal hoaxes, these manufactured charades are designed to distract from American military strikes in other parts of the world. Last year the attacks were in Russian Georgia; this year they were in Afghanistan and Pakistan – both of which were hit with U.S. “surges” on or around Aug. 12th.

The "Mothman" crop circle from Goes, Holland. The guys running the laser satellites know we are hot on their trail.

In the first week of Aug., a Mothman crop circle apparently appeared in Goes, Holland, which was hyped on Coast to Coast – a show that has touted several different hoaxed Mothman photos. Strangely, they have ignored what is likely the only documentable photo of Mothman, taken by Spring Colvin in 1973. Is this because the 1973 photo shows none of the “red eyes” or other “demonic” evidence preferred by the show’s host, George Noory? A week after the hyping of the Mothman crop circle, a lady from Kentucky claimed to have had an apocalyptic dream of Mothman, which was reported to Forteans West. Regardless of whether or not this particular report is legit, the creation of apocalyptic scenarios is a common tactic among agent provocateurs, as it sets up a situation where the subject matter can be easily debunked (when the apocalypse doesn’t pan out). IMHO “Mothman” doesn’t work in apocalyptic ways. The clues are almost always small and indirect, and they are less common in dreams than they are in everyday, synchronistic events. My favorite hoax this August is the “Orbs Over WV Nuke Plant” video, which shows four white orbs flying around the stacks of a WV power plant. The video is very realistic, but not quite “right.” Whether the orbs are doctored into the footage or just real, ordinary drone surveillance craft, the spinning of the orbs as “extraterrestrial” fits the bill. It gets people off of thinking about U.S. aggression and about healthcare reform, which Obama oddly chose to push during the same week – probably because it would be doomed to failure amid so many other distractions. 

Scale model of the Kecksburg UFO, which greatly resembles the Nazi Bell weapon. The Bell was said to utilize spinning spheres inside, in order to generate unusual magnetic fields. Is this an ancient design kept alive by high-level Masons?

This year, the idea was floated on Aug. 12th that Manson’s “wife,” Squeaky Fromme, might be soon be released from prison. Two days later, on Aug. 14th, Squeaky was released. Manson’s other old girlfriend, Sara Jane Moore, had been released a few weeks earlier. That same day, Aug. 14th, I put on my “Tour de France” watch and noticed that it had stopped working. The watch had been purchased a year or two prior in Pasadena, while I was there trying to get a feel for Parsons and Cameron, who lived there. Near the end of that trip, I saw a white orb while flying out of Burbank. I looked at my dead watch on Aug. 14th and noticed that it had stopped at 1:11. I looked at the date and it, too, read “1,” even though it was the 14th. Again, we have 11/11. The watch had been working fine previously, raising an interesting question: how did the watch get to be 14 days off while still showing the correct time? Confounded, I reached for my backup watch, made by the Coleman company. Unbelievably, it too had stopped at 1:11!

My "Tour de France" watch purchased in Pasadena, which stopped at 1:11. The date says "2" because I had tried to reset it from "1" to "14" on Aug. 14th. France is the traditional stronghold of the Masons.

One can see that these sorts of synchronicities arise in order to give us some kind of information. In a sense, they are shortcuts to secrets that would probably take years to ascertain by normal means. They are wormholes through the vast space of disinformation; and since they usually coincide with elite ops designed to hoodwink the public, they are an invaluable tool in keeping the dream of true democracy alive.

My backup watch, made by Coleman, which also stopped at 1:11. Note that it is 11 seconds away from reading "1:12." Could the reference to "Coleman" point toward a Masonic Mothman conspirator named Coleman?

Recently I was on the new Grassy Knoll show at the Think or Be Eaten site: http://thinkorbeeaten.com/theknoll/radio.html There, in episode 39 of my series with Vyz, we discuss recent developments in the Mothman world, as well as laud the work of John Keel, who recently died. In that show, I mentioned that in 1978, Harold Salkin of Official UFO magazine did a story on Woodrow Derenberger. The magazine printed a photo of an accident involving a VW bug on the night Woody met Indrid Cold (who drove a VW). Such a rare photo showed that the magazine had done some homework on the case. Interestingly, they also printed a photo of an unidentified man with a penetrating gaze. Oddly, they simply said that it was a “picture taken recently in Pt. Pleasant.”  

Unidentified WV man in the March 1978 issue of "Official UFO" magazine. Could this be the mysterious Indrid Cold?

When I saw the face of the unidentified man, I was immediately struck by his resemblance to a drawing apparently made by someone who had once met Cold (and who had later posted it to the internet).

Witness drawing of Indrid Cold, sans moustache. If the witness met Cold in 1966, Cold most likely was still wearing his hair short, as the Summer of Love had not yet happened.

Both men had high cheekbones and eyes that slanted slightly upwards at the outside – slightly “Oriental.” Since Cold was known to have lived in Midway, WV for several years after the Mothman events, the man in the Official UFO article could very well be Indrid Cold.

At some point following the publication of this photo, Cold is said to have moved to Cleveland, OH. His whereabouts are currently unknown, but he is most likely still in the Cleveland area. Please forward any pertinent information you may have about the identify of this man to LOWFI. He is probably between 70 and 80 years old, and one of his aliases may be “John Morgan.” Do not attempt to confront Cold directly. He is a skilled agent and potentially dangerous, despite his age.

Recently, I met up with Taos Public Radio program director, producer, and radio personality Ben Camp. Along with Ben was his cohort, DJ Elario, who comes from a long line of New Mexican medicine people. Elario’s brother is a medicine man, and Elario is an apprentice. What I found interesting is that right before I arrived, Ben had a sighting of an apparition. He talks about it here. It’s ironic, for last year he was saying that he is quite the skeptic, who never has paranormal experiences.

Birdman painting from Rio Puerco, close to where the Camp/Elario interview took place.

Ben Camp (BC): [When I encountered the entity] I got scared. The hair on my arms stood up. I looked over, yet didn’t see anybody. It was pitch black. I finally got in my car and drove off. I convinced myself that I was spooking myself. [It was like] a horror movie. When I came back, my hair was [still] standing up on my arms. That’s the honest truth.

Andy Colvin (AC): What do you think was going on?

BC: I think I was [maybe] trying to creep myself out, psychologically. [I was] thinking that there was somebody there, when there wasn’t.

AC: Could it be your unconscious coming out?

BC: I don’t know. I thought I heard somebody there. I was jumpy. When I got back, I couldn’t overcome my irrational fear of the unknown.

AC: Maybe you have a psychic link with someone. I had that happen once. I walked into our garage a year or two after my father died, and I heard “him” speak to me. It was right after I saw the tree entity on Woodward Lane. One explanation for this is that my subconscious wanted to experience Dad again – to hear his voice – and so re-created his voice in my head. In order to make it seem more genuine, it made it seem like it was outside of myself – as the ancient Greeks reportedly did.

BC: Whoa… I didn’t hear any words, but I thought I heard somebody there. I don’t know why I would be scared. [Normally] I would just walk over and take a look.

AC: Isn’t your dad a master of the game Go?

BC: Yes. The game’s [essential] structure resides in momentum. It’s all about deceiving people and taking advantage of their attacks, turning their attacks on themselves. Computers don’t really understand momentum [so they can’t compete as well in it].

AC: Physicist Rob Godbey, whom I interviewed for the reality series, feels that the study of “probabilities” and creativity should be stressed more in the educational system.

BC: Yes… As a way to get kids thinking that way, my father was really into teaching Go at the Waldorf Schools in Seattle. An enemy’s advance doesn’t have to be an advance. You can turn it around, like in martial arts.

AC: There’s a Native American story about that – about a woman and the Thunderbird. Thunderbird was coming down and scaring people, so the old lady went into the longhouse and built a fire. She got some stones, threw them in the fire, and got them really hot. When the Thunderbird came to the door, she acted like she was eating the rocks. She picked them up, turned sideways to him, and made them look like they were going into her mouth. She was actually throwing them behind her… She said, “Oh these are really good! Mmm…”

BC: So he ate one?

AC: Yes, he bursts in and eats the rocks. It teaches him a lesson, and he never comes back again. That’s an example of turning your enemy’s momentum around.

AC: The first thing that we said to each other today was, “How can you really know what you’re seeing is the truth?” I think that question comes across in that piece you just did. It places it in the realm of the paranormal. Maybe there’s some energy moving around here today.

DJ Elario (DJ): Yes, you never know. Maybe I will touch on a point that might make somebody else realize something. You never know [the importance] of what you’re saying, you know? I think it’s all just sent from [elsewhere]. There’s a different energy out there making us [or] not making us, whether we know about it or not. [But] we can choose to participate in it, if we want.

AC: Several people I’ve interviewed recently have talked about this inner struggle. They seem to be saying that there are sometimes battles within yourself between “good” and “evil,” and that supernatural entities seem to show up at those times. In that “battle,” Einstein thought that creativity, or imagination, was more important than knowledge.

DJ: I [don’t] like to say “good and evil” because people right away take it as religious. [But] I was telling Ben today that I thought I had met you before somewhere. You looked familiar to me. When we picked you up today, I told Ben, “I’ve met this guy somewhere before.” [But] we’ve never met.

AC: That topic comes up a lot with me. I’ve been told that in every city I’ve lived in, that I more or less have a doppelganger. Harriet claims that she saw my doppelganger in Mexico and in Greece. I met her friend who was with her on those trips, and the friend was eyeing me as if to say, “Man, that was you.” But I wasn’t there. I keep hearing that people have seen me in places. Maybe I was cloned, or maybe I’m a “Manchurian astral projectionist” – someone who astral projects but doesn’t remember doing so.

The latest incident came in Dec. 2007, when a waiter at Flying Fish restaurant in Seattle told me that he had waited on “me” several times in Los Angeles… According to the book Garuda: The Celestial Bird in Indian Art and Literature by Shanti Lal Nagar, the “English counterpart of the Garuda has been believed to be an eagle… In South Africa these birds are popularly known as fish-eagle.” Hence, the term “flying fish” can be interpreted as an indirect reference to the Garuda.

DJ: You know, maybe we’re all going the same way. I believe if you just listen, you’ll see what’s real. But it’s so hard to listen most of the time, because we’re attracted to things like TV. The media is the strongest blanket over peoples’ eyes nowadays. It controls how we feel and what we should think about. It [selects] the images portrayed to our kids. A lot of kids around the world are sold a dream. I’m one of them, you know? Maybe it’s just a plot to keep people reaching for what’s not there…

AC: You seem to have broken free. Maybe you’re reaching for your higher Self.

DJ: Yes, or maybe it’s a form of redemption. It’s hard to say because once you start to pinpoint it, “they” change the program a little bit. You can’t really explain it because it keeps changing.

AC: That’s what happens with light. When they try to pinpoint light in a specific location, they find that it has moved. It changes the moment you observe it, and it instantaneously transmits information about those states of change to nearby particles.

DJ: I feel that that is what this energy is… As soon as we find this [or that] truth that we’re looking for, it’s going to change. There’s [always] a “higher” truth.

AC: The higher truth of change and regeneration? The cycle of life?

DJ: Yes, the cycle of life, whatever life is. Life is a dream to me. Most people go to sleep to dream. Then they wake up to go to work or whatever. I go to sleep to rest, and I wake up dreaming. I wake up to dream. Sometimes I can’t believe where I was yesterday. Was I really there, or was that one of those out-of-body experiences? You never know.

AC: Yes, because time is always in the now. The minute you start to try to go back and put a concept on it, it’s gone.

DJ: It’s funny… You need time to reflect on time. We have this now but in a little while, time’s going to take me somewhere else. Who knows where I’ll be? Who knows if I’ll even see you again?

AC: The sages say that time is absolute, and that our lives are stamped by a pre-programmed destiny – like a computer program. At the same time, the most responsible way for us to respond is to act as if we have free will.

BC: I’m for creating your own “reality control.” If we look at things as [within] our control, we’re not just existing in a set of circumstances we didn’t choose…

DJ: Don’t you think that maybe you create your own decisions? Maybe you don’t have control over the whole process of the whole movement of the world, but you do have control over your decisions. You get dealt with circumstances, but you do have a decision in those circumstances – that is what you control.

AC: I would concur with that. In an overall sense, you didn’t have any control over your birth, or how you got here – at least consciously. Yet you do have control over some things, like your responses, your ego boundaries, and your decisions, good or bad.

DJ: Maybe you [indirectly] control where you’re going to end up. Even though we still don’t know where we’ll end up by making these decisions, maybe we just go with [the] chain reaction. All you control is your decision in one split second, to either say something or not, walk or not walk, smile or not smile – whatever it is.

AC: It’s like you’re another electronic chip in the electrochemical flow, as it goes through organism after organism.

DJ: Who’s to say what you saw wasn’t real? It wasn’t viewed by anybody else [but] you yourself were there. I’ve been in a few crazy places, on drugs and off of drugs. It’s kind of like The Matrix, you can either take the pill or not. Do you choose to take the pill and take yourself out of that comfort zone and see where you end up? Because I don’t believe drugs destroy lives; I think people destroy their own lives. They just choose to blame it on something else. It’s easier to say “drugs made me do it” rather than “those were my own decisions.”

BC: There is a parable called The Empty Boat. I’ll paraphrase it… It says that if you’re on a boat on a river, and there’s another guy in another boat on the river, and he starts coming towards you, you’ll get more and more frustrated [and] emotional, especially if he hits you. But if the boat’s empty and it’s coming towards you, you don’t experience any of those emotions. You won’t get angry if it hits you because you see it as an event, or curiosity [brought on by the cosmos, not some other person].

DJ: I’m for putting your whole self in the boat, dawg. [Unfortunately] if you try to put more meaning into your life, the world [often] tries to take away that meaning [by] using everything against you. I guess that’s the balance of life [but] I’d rather have my boat full.

AC: The empty boat helps us not be attached to the outcome. There’s no one there to blame. Regarding Elario’s comment, I would say that you can put everything into a full boat as long as you’re not overly attached to your expectations. It’s better to experience things directly, without conceptualizing. For instance when you’re onstage performing, it’s best just to be there in that moment, without conscious thought. If you are not there, people will know and will think you’re faking it. They want to see you in the moment.

DJ: I can connect with that [because] I’ve taken every single moment that God [has given me. If] you say “God,” people usually see a man sitting on a throne [but] God to me is just the essence itself. Whenever those chances where put my way, I took every single one. I tried to make it the best experience it could be. There have been times when I’ve chosen not to be there, but most of the times I have. I’ve noticed that after those experiences, people look at you a different way. You start to somehow create their thoughts. With your actions, you’re creating their thoughts… All of a sudden you become something to them: something to look up to, something to believe in – maybe a legend. There have been a lot of great people in this world. I think it was because they knew something. Something was shown to them that they had to express. They were basically here to do their job, or not. Either way you’re going to face death, whatever death is… Most of us are scared of it. I’m scared of death, but only because nobody can sit here and tell me what’s going to happen after that. I think [the answer] is within myself. When I’m finally ready to admit to myself what it is, that is probably when the transition will happen. Nobody [else] will even know it; it’ll just be like a blink [of the eye] – an ending and beginning at the same time.

AC: The mental processes that you’ve been practicing all along will probably just keep on happening, although on a less conscious plane.

DJ: You just leave your energy behind. You no longer have to be a physical, or be affected by the physical. You just are, or were, or have been, or will always be…

“Supernatural events have been reported for millennia (e.g. the miracles of Moses, Jesus, Mohammed); they have played central roles in history’s most important cultural transformations. They are frequently portrayed in the world’s greatest art and literature. The majority of the U.S. adult population believes in paranormal phenomena. In times past, the supernatural was seen as all-encompassing, providing a ground for existence, but it was also recognized as irrational and dangerous. In academe now, those ideas are viewed as quaint. [But] it makes sense to reevaluate those older, forgotten, marginalized, and discredited ideas [for] they can expose the limits of ‘rationality.’ Deception is frequently encountered with the paranormal (via hoaxes). Consider the trickster figure… The trickster was an important figure in many ‘primitive’ religions, but curiously, he is now rather neglected. Paradox, ambiguity, and marginality typify both [the paranormal and the trickster]. Marginality is a type of anti-structure [that is necessarily] anti-institutional. It is a salient characteristic of paranormal groups. Low status is vested upon those who conduct parapsychological research. Conversely, opposition to such investigation (i.e., CSICOP) has attracted endorsements of many elite scientists with little knowledge of the paranormal. [However] the paranormal does not lack large institutions to promote it. In fact, enormous industries are devoted to it – but portray it as fiction. Those businesses gross hundreds of millions of dollars annually (at least).

“Precognition and psychokinesis (PK) suggest that an effect can precede its cause. In lab studies, it is often difficult to ascertain who caused any [ESP or] psi effect. Psi accompanies processes of change, transition, flux, and disorder… The pattern extends from individuals to entire cultures. Times of personal change are associated with psychic functioning. Groups that engage the phenomena are typically unstable and rarely institutionalize successfully. During cultural transitions, paranormal phenomena gain greater public prominence. The late 1960s and early 1970s in the U.S. were times of accelerated social change, and they [saw] a surge of popular interest in the paranormal… Status differences [were] involved. Status is one of the central issues of this [research]. When examining any pair of persons, groups, or nations, one member typically has a higher status. Psi subverts these distinctions. Telepathy and psychic healing suggest that the dividing line between self and other is not sharp. PK challenges the mind-matter demarcation. UFOs are liminal and anti-structural. They have properties in common with angels, spirits, fairies, and demons. Psi has the properties of the betwixt and between, of transitional spaces, of the liminal and interstitial. Liminality involves an equalizing (or even an inversion) of status, a blurring of distinctions. One of the trickster’s duties is to lower or invert status and induce [events which can lead to] revitalization. He has no fixed shape, form, or image. Primary characteristics include disruption, deception, lowered sexual inhibitions, psi phenomena, and [social] marginality. Personification [into creatures like angels, werewolves, the Virgin Mary, Bigfoot, or Mothman] provides a way of organizing this melange [of characteristics] that otherwise seems incoherent.

“The trickster is difficult for scholars. The usual scientific concepts are inadequate to fully explain him. He has many meanings and cannot be reduced to a single interpretation. He resists being placed in any single category. That’s why [my research] covers such a range of topics – from ritual clowns who eat excrement, to experiments with random number generators, to literary criticism. The diversity is the reason so few people have any comprehension of the scope of the trickster’s relevance, including his pertinence to psi. The bureaucratic antagonism to psi is not a conscious conspiracy. Those who act in concert with the prejudice are not aware of the factors influencing them. This unconscious antipathy is a pervasive social phenomenon found in numerous cultures; thus not to be explained by the psychology of individuals. It demonstrates that social forces have an independent existence and that those forces can operate through individuals without them being aware of it. Both religion and science try to hedge off or repress contact with the supernatural [because it] stimulates change and disorder. The supernatural is irrational, but it is also real. It holds enormous power. We ignore it at our peril. It operates not only on the individual level, but at a collective level, influencing entire cultures. The witchcraft persecutions and the demagoguery of charismatic leaders are only two of many dangers. If we fail to recognize the limits of our ‘rational’ way of thinking, we can become victims of it. Parapsychology demonstrates that our thoughts, including our unconscious thoughts, are not limited to our brains. They move of their own accord and influence the physical world.”

-George P. Hansen, The Trickster and the Paranormal, pp. 422-430

Petroglyphs at Goblin Valley State Park, UT. Could these be early images of "Mothman?"

I first met the eccentric, offbeat “super architect” Bill Bryant through a female artist I knew at the Univ. of Texas art school, whose father had been a military pilot. For a time, the woman was married to a Frenchman whose father had been in the Resistance. Bill and I attended their wedding in Le Havre during the raucous French Bicentennial and had lots of fun exploring cathedrals like Mt. Saint Michel (named after a birdman). The woman later married a man involved with the Texas Energy Commission, which led to her occasionally being employed by the Bush family. While Bill was not employed by the Bushes, he has designed several homes for upscale clients like film director Robert Rodriguez. In his first job in NYC, Bill designed a home that won the NY state “home of the year” award. During the filming of The Mothman’s Photographer, I met Bill on Lake Travis outside of Austin, TX, on the yacht of the aforementioned Frenchman, who was celebrating his 35^th birthday. During the party, I ran into several interesting characters with strange connections. After being temporarily put out of commission by the ingestion of extremely powerful hallucinogens, we were chided by a Texas cowboy in a suit who claimed to work for Red Adair, the father of modern oil-rig firefighting. Adair put out the famous oil-well fires during the Persian Gulf War. Curiously, another swinging guest at the party was associated with an investment firm linked to the 9/11 events. During filming, I discovered that Bill had once received a severe blow to the head, much like Ken Alton and my sister Loretta. This theme points to a possible correlation between head injuries and the ability to have visions and precognitions. Since I was unable to get much coherent footage in Austin, Bill was kind enough to come to Seattle. I interviewed him in Aug. 2003 at the haunted Northgate Mall, which happens to be the first modern mall in the U.S.

Bill Bryant (BB): I really hate to posit anything because I don’t have a desire to feel consistent or be consistent, on any basis whatsoever.

Andy Colvin (AC): That’s cool…

BB: I [enjoy] the freedom to be in the moment, with what’s going on now. All of my opportunities of glimpsing into the atemporal world came after long sabbaticals of allowing myself to just be at peace and at ease. I [had] the opportunity to have glimpses, but [I couldn’t] hold onto them. They really weren’t trauma-oriented; they were much more ease-oriented. I guess I went through [the traumas] in earlier parts of my life. I’m kind of a weaver. I like to weave fabrics, matrices of understanding, and participate in them. I kind of draw the needle, then take time to look back and see what’s being woven. But even that’s not too precious. I let that go, too, and see what arrives next. I think the thing that held me back in the past was always fear. Of what I don’t know… I used to build altars to anything I was afraid of. I would put on the altar some kind of effigy of whatever I was afraid of. I’ll have to show you my photographs of the Grand Mural. The Grand Mural is near Hanksville, Utah. It’s hard to get to now because they’re trying to protect it, but you have to walk about five hours in the [desert] heat, then you go way down in this canyon and walk along the riverbed. [It’s near] Goblin State Park.

AC: Any time you hear place names like “goblin” or “devil,” it generally means that there is a lot of paranormal activity there.

BB: You should see these petroglyphs. They’re not typical. They look more like…

AC: Spacemen?

BB: No, more like the Mothman… They’re really tall. They’re like two times the size of a normal human being, and they’re cut into the wall. I have great photographs of them… They’re really amazing. I’m serious about that. They’re awesome. I was the only person down there, besides a ranger who is there to protect them… They’re carved on a curve, looking down at you. They [seem to have the ability to] focus. You walk along as they’re focusing [on you].

AC: Sounds like those Jesus paintings… This might be a good time to discuss the place we are today, which is Northgate Mall in Seattle. Harriet Plumbrook telepathically dowsed this location recently. She looked it up on a map on the computer. But she couldn’t get a read on it. She’s come to the conclusion that electronic maps won’t work for dowsing or remote viewing, because the electronic signals screw up the process. She can only look at a paper map or nothing at all. Apparently, not looking at anything – just visualizing in your head – works better than looking at an electronic map.

BB: Digitizing doesn’t have that analog biorhythm to it. It’s just too flattened out. It is translated and [therefore] changes dimensions. I think that’s why it doesn’t work.

AC: That’s how I felt when I was working as a surveyor and we started making computer drawings, instead of ink drawings. It took all the fun out of it… Anyway, I just got an email from Harriet yesterday. I had sent her an email telling her that Ben Camp and I felt like Northgate Mall was a special spot. Jim Woodring said at one of his talks recently that he experienced a paranormal event here at the mall. He briefly saw a woman’s head shapeshift into a rotten vegetable. When I heard that, I contacted Harriet and asked her to give me her psychic impressions of the area. Even though I had not told her that we were drawn to the southeast corner of the mall, she said, “Well, it’s the southeast corner. There’s a big debate about something there. Perhaps a creek… Perhaps a park…. It might be a power spot.” So I did a little research and found that, sure enough, they’re fighting over this creek that runs underneath the mall. There’s been a lot of controversy ever since it was first paved over. The creek now runs through a conduit, and people are still upset about that. I contacted my friend with the Tulalip Indian tribe, and he said that they’re having the same issue up there with the mall near the reservation. They’ve paved over a sacred creek. He thinks that the same thing is probably going on here. It was most likely a sacred creek to the Indians, probably near a crossroads… Ancient crossroads were the places trading was done. Some malls have, purposely or not, been built at these spots…

In 2008, I discovered that the opening of the Northgate Mall was an historic event. It opened on April 21, 1950 and began a new trend whereby modern shopping malls with huge parking lots would take customers away from Main Street USA. Other interesting world events happened around the same time in 1950, such as the recognition of the People’s Republic of China as a state (Jan. 6th), Truman’s announcement of the program to develop the hydrogen bomb (Jan. 11th), Israel’s declaration of Jerusalem as its capital (Jan. 23rd), Sen. Joe McCarthy’s announcement of the names of 205 supposed Communists in front of a Republican Women’s Club in WV (Feb. 9th), the signing by the USSR and China of a “mutual defense” treaty (Feb. 15th), Russia’s start of the Korean War (June 25th), and the passage of the Internal Security Act limiting free speech in America (Sept. 23rd). Since all of the above events involved the manipulation of the Rockefellers, one has to wonder if they weren’t also behind the development of malls.

AC: Anyway, Bill, I thought this might be an appropriate place to bring you to discuss some of your paranormal sightings. Could you tell us about the one you had at Panther Creek on Mt. Rainier, where you saw a “shadow being” and experienced precognition?

BB: It was about five years ago on Mount Rainier, in Washington State. I’m not positive on the year, but I was at the end of a six-month sabbatical away from work in NYC. Mount Rainier has always been one of my favorite places to recreate, so I went to one of my favorite waterfalls [there. It is] kind of a hidden place that I’ve never seen anyone else at before. I had finished swimming and jumping off the cliffs into the cold water. I was feeling quite at peace, quite at ease… It was probably about the fifth time I had taken a sabbatical out of New York. I had left my apartment and was running out of money. I was quite ready to re-enter the workplace. I wanted to know where I should go and what I should do. I had a lot of options [to think about]. Anyways, late in the day, the sun started going down. I didn’t want to leave the waterfall, so I hung out. In that moment of peacefulness I asked, “What do I do?” And something inside of me said to look back at the hill. I turned back at the hill and adjacent to these very large old-growth old trees were shadow figures – dark figurines. [There were] several of them adjacent to trees. There was just an incredible sense of peace and well-being. [I got the message] “Go back to New York. You’re needed where love is needed – that’s where one goes.” Basically [it turned out that] someone I was very close to was dying, and [I needed] to go participate in his death. At first, I thought there were actually people standing there against the trees. I kept looking closer and closer. I walked up and looked around a little bit. The ones that I knew were adjacent to certain trees [would move about imperceptibly]. I’d look again and they wouldn’t be there. I’d look towards another set of trees and there they would be! Then, they were gone. I felt such a sense of peace, tranquility, and kind assurance. [I was given] a direction and an affirmation [about] returning to New York.

AC: When you first told me this story, you mentioned that you started having precognitions after that. If something bad was going to happen to somebody, you might get a feeling about it… Do you think it was connected with those beings at all?

BB: Yes, it really could be. That’s the only time I really felt that I was seeing something. But I’ve always relied heavily on a kind of precognition. The strongest [signals come] when I’ve finished a meditation or retreat. Or [they may come] in the middle of a meditation retreat. During Vapasana retreats, you psychically open up to [previously] hidden, intense, knotty blocks. I try to marry the inside with the outside, and rely heavily on my intuition and precognitions.

Bill’s experience on Mt. Rainier occurred where the first modern UFOs were seen. The first saucer witness, Kenneth Arnold, saw something that actually looked like today’s Stealth Bomber. He drew a picture of what he saw, and it looks almost exactly like the Horten “Flying Wing,” a plane manufactured in Germany in 1939.

AC: There was another paranormal event you mentioned, where everything had sort of disappeared and you entered a state of heightened consciousness…

BB: I was in upstate New York, in the Hudson River Valley. A good friend of mine owns a house up there on about 7 acres, adjacent to a wetlands and a gigantic power line that runs through the property. A very large underground gas pipeline cuts underneath the Hudson River there. It was a summer morning. I sat outside in the parking area with the cars and everything just disappeared. The house, the yard, everything just kind of disappeared… It all was just kind of “electric.” It was a really blissful, peaceful moment – a real, atemporal experience. [I was] outside of myself and outside of time. It wasn’t really a visual phenomenon. I tend to learn in episodes and chapters. In my younger years I was far more histrionic than now, I guess due to some of these experiences… It’s been an operational modality for me for many years since, just not getting uptight about things, walking through a really crowded room with a lot of noise and just being able to peacefully walk right through the middle of it all. I think experiences like this have helped a lot… Fairly close to that time, I lived in a loft in Soho, in NYC, where they filmed the movie Ghost. It had been filmed there maybe a year or so before I moved in. It was a Saturday morning. The only furniture I had was two chairs and a table. I sat down at the chair and kicked my feet up on the table, just to kind of relax a little bit before I went out. Again, the whole room just pretty much disappeared, and there was kind of a moving, migrating [double] helix [before me]. Bound upon this helix were different times in history, everything from Prehistoric times to the Roman Empire, the Crucifixion of Christ, Nazi Germany, and even personal aspects of my own life. They were all occurring simultaneously. If I wanted to go into a certain area and look into it, I could. Wherever my mind wanted to go, I could step into it and look. It was very fascinating but still there was this peacefulness, an easy air that lasted maybe ten, fifteen minutes. I really don’t know… When it was all said and done, I had such an amazing sense of gratitude, because it was a gift; it’s something that emanates out of all of us. We do have that ability to live atemporally whenever we wish. Over the course of several of these experiences, I’ve been able to glimpse into an alternative timescape that has made an impact on my life. [It] has afforded me the opportunity to be at peace with things, regardless of what’s going on. I don’t know that the world’s ever experienced a really peaceful, nonviolent time – an a-phenomenal world… Now, I’m not surprised by much. I really don’t have a profound need to encapsulate or label stuff. Whatever arises at [any given] moment, I try to greet with a little equanimity. I just enjoy life. I mean it’s so incredibly rare that you just try to enjoy it; to piece it together is not really my thing anymore. [It] has a lot to do with stepping into it. When you are fairly immediate, you’re not trying to rationalize or to understand anymore. There is this immediate understanding that shows up. There is a “now.” There is an amazing understanding in the Now. That brief little edge can allow you to slip over from the temporal to the atemporal: not of time. To be “consistent” requires dogmas, ideologies, and encapsulation – holding things and labeling things. I think that entails a lot of suffering and possibly a lot of ignorance.

AC: Just from hearing your story about the double helix, I wonder if you may have actually seen another version of the Mothman. The Garuda is often depicted as holding two spirals, or snakes. That image of the Garuda holding the two spiraling snakes has been translated into things like the American Medical Association symbol, the caduceus. The two “snakes” going around the staff represent the spinal column, and at the top of the staff are the Garuda wings, representing enlightenment and atemporality. Throughout history, the Garuda, or Guru-da, has been seen as this deific healer or “guru.” By intuitively using the mythological approach towards the healing process, where the caduceus “snake” bites one on the shoulder, UFO witness Ken Alton found himself spontaneously healing people by shamanically “taking on” their illnesses.

BB: You recently used a word that really stuck with me [as I was] wandering around in the Canadian Rockies last week. You [said] that we need to “honor” the skills, the understanding, the perceptions that we all have – that are unique to ourselves [yet] common to one another. I found that to be very profound. It really stayed with me, and I appreciate that. I’ll probably carry that word for a while as a little mantra, because I think it is necessary to be respectful. I don’t think human nature and humankind has changed that much. I think we are still as violent [as ever]. Someone once said that “all acts of ignorance are violent in nature.” I think that’s probably true… I’m glad you have the energy and desire to [make this documentary and] to weave a really beautiful fabric that has motion and movement to it. I’m kind of in the “observer” time of my life. Instead of trying to string things together, I think I now just notice [them]. Holographically, they all take place at the same time. Jesus used to say that we need to “marry” Heaven to Earth.  [We need to] be present here on this earth with all the phenomena that’s going on – all the [mental and physical] things taking place – in such an authentic way that there is no “self” doing it. Since all human consciousness is the same, when we make a change within our own lives, we are actually changing the consciousness of all of mankind.

AC: Harriet and I trade emails about the amazing coincidences, synchronicities, and precognitions that come up in our lives. The most recent one was about the Michigan crop circle. There is a crop circle in Michigan right now… But she dreamed about it 3 weeks ago, long before it happened. And Ken Alton and I recently had the same dream, about Bigfoot changing into a dog. That happened only last week.

BB: Synchronicity is always there, happening all the time. It’s just that our minds become so occupied with day-to-day reality that we really miss out on [synchronous] opportunities. [But] you can slow down the mind in the midst of all these things. That’s when the beauty and helping hand of synchronicity shows up… I think it just comes down to learning [to] slow down. That’s when it really gets to be fun and rich. Then the synchronicities are just something you laugh at. You just let them go, because it’s endless.

AC: Some synchronicities seem to be precognitions. I feel that precognition is one of the most important tools for the future of humanity, in terms of raising consciousness. If people realize that they can use it as a tool on a daily basis, it may change everything.

BB: [But to get there] people need to slow down. They have such agitated minds. They’re always feeding their senses. They listen to music, go to the movies, and pick up books [and magazines]. It just goes on and on and on. I was sitting in a park along Deception Pass yesterday morning… A guy walked up to me and goes, “Do you do meditation?” And I said, “Well, yes I do.” Then he proceeded to tell me the lamentations of his life. His wife was getting larger every day. She was totally addicted to consumption, whether it be food or possessions, and she was spending $4000-5000 a month on the credit cards. Things were just going to hell in a hand-basket. And I said, “Well, you know, you have a choice in this. You’re responsible for this, too. You need to find your part in this.” There are some simple things we need to get over [before we can receive precognitive gifts. The first one is to] cut the credit cards up. Our lives need to become [easier to contain]. You and I talked earlier about the chakras in the body and [how they relate to] healing. It’s not always a blockage or constriction [in the chakras that causes disease]. Sometimes [there’s a hole in the chakras, where leakage occurs]. We’re so diffused by our addictions, the things that we have to take to keep ourselves in an escape mode: caffeine, alcohol, and [bad] food [and drugs. It] all ends up down in the control center, in the colon. That diffuseness really prevents the coiling snakes – the ascending, descending snakes of kundalini – from moving up. It is blocked not by a denial, but by overdiffusion. Precognitions are valuable; I wouldn’t want to diminish them. I use precognition. I get little hints, little glimmers… Sometimes they come many times in a row. This makes me tune into a bigger migration, maybe on a larger wavelength in my life. I kind of go, “Hmm… Let’s stop for a while.” That’s usually when I’ll [stop] getting so busy and inundated with things. I’ll pull aside and try to get a glimpse of what’s coming my way. There are so many sensations that we, as human beings, can delve into and take full advantage of, but I think we have to be mindful of the things we use to distract ourselves. Most people don’t truly enjoy life – the richness of it all. I think that’s unfortunate.

AC: Any more examples of synchronous glimmers?

BB: I go to Costa Rica a lot. I stay with a friend of mine who runs a lodge there. His name is Phil. His parents live in Florida. I was coming back from the West Coast and something inside said, “Take the time; drop down into Big Bend.” I had been back down in Costa Rica maybe eight months prior to that. Someone had wrecked one of Phil’s motorcycles and he thought it had been me. He was [still] really upset. I really wanted to go back down to Costa Rica, but I knew that things just weren’t cool between us. I had tried to straighten it out, but it just didn’t seem to work… So at the last moment, I made a hard turn off the freeway and started heading down towards Big Bend National Park. The whole time I was thinking, “God, I need to take care of this [Phil] situation. This is just bugging me.” Normally I stop in at the ranger station and pay my permit [before] heading to the natural hot springs. This time, I just decided to skip paying for my permit, and drove straight to the hot springs. I had the whole place to myself. Then, an older couple showed up saying, “Oh, is this the hot springs?” I said, “Yes it is,” and they said, “Well, we didn’t bring our bathing suits. Do you mind if we get in in our underwear?” I said I didn’t care if they got in buck-naked. So they proceeded to strip down to their underwear and get in the hot springs. We started talking. I told them that I’d been traveling for a while in the States [and] down to Central America. They said, “Oh really? Where?” I said, “Well, I go to Costa Rica. I go down to a little town near Puerta Jimenez on the Oso Peninsula.” She goes, “Oh, that’s interesting. Our son…” and I immediately stopped before she said anything. I said, “Are you Phil’s mother?” And she goes, “Yes, I am.” I said, “This is just too bizarre, because I was just thinking about Phil the whole way down here driving to the park.” I said, “I am heading back from California,” and she goes, “we’re heading to California.” I began to tell them that something inside me had said, “Turn and go down to Big Bend.” [Amazingly] they had not [had any intention of] stopping in Big Bend, either. They were on their way to California but had decided [at the last moment to] stop in and see this place. They, too, opted not to pay the permit or check in, and to go straight to the hot tubs… We made it back to their campground. It turned out that I [was] camping next door to them, unbeknownst to either of us. We got into their RV and took a digital snapshot of the three of us, and emailed it to Phil in Costa Rica. So… It’s not just me getting [the precognitions]. Other people are getting them, too.

AC: Did that synchronicity help you patch things up with Phil?

BB: Yes, absolutely. It made us all laugh like crazy.

—————-

“Synchronicity is noteworthy not only because of its improbability, but because of its apparent relationship to events taking place deep in the human psyche. The classic example of this is Jung’s ‘scarab story.’ Jung was treating a woman whose staunchly rational approach to life made it difficult for her to benefit from therapy. After some [synchronicities involving the scarab] the woman was so stunned that she tempered her excessive rationality, and from that point on her response to therapy improved. Jung encountered many such meaningful coincidences during his psychotherapeutic work, and noticed that they almost always accompanied periods of emotional intensity and transformation: fundamental changes in belief, sudden and new insights, death, births, even changes in profession. He also noticed that they tended to peak when the new realization or insight was just about to surface in a patient’s consciousness. As his ideas became more widely known, other therapists began reporting their own experiences with synchronicity… Because of their striking nature, Jung became convinced that such synchronicities were not chance occurrences, but were in fact related to the psychological processes of the individual who experienced them. Since he could not conceive how an occurrence deep in the psyche could cause an event or series of events in the physical world, he proposed that some new principle must be involved, an acausal connecting principle hitherto unknown to science – [what] some physicists [are now calling] a non-local quantum effect.

“[For instance, physicist] David Peat believes that synchronicities are not only real, but offer further evidence of the implicate order… The apparent separateness of consciousness and matter is an illusion, an artifact that occurs only after both have unfolded into the explicate world of objects and sequential time. If there is no division between mind and matter in the implicate, the ground from which all things spring, then it is not unusual to expect that reality might still be shot through with traces of this deep connectivity. Peat believes that synchronicities are therefore ‘flaws’ in the fabric of reality, momentary fissures that allow us a brief glimpse of the immense and unitary order underlying all of nature. Put another way, Peat thinks that synchronicities reveal the absence of division between the physical world and our inner psychological reality. Thus the relative scarcity of synchronous experiences in our lives shows not only the extent to which we have fragmented ourselves from the general field of consciousness, but also the degree to which we have sealed ourselves off from the infinite and dazzling potential of the deeper orders of mind and reality. According to Peat, when we experience a synchronicity…we are reaching past mind and matter, into creativity itself. This is an astounding notion. Virtually all of our common-sense prejudices about the world are based on the [shaky] premise that subjective and objective reality are very much separate… The implications are staggering.

“One implication is that objective reality is more like a dream than we have previously suspected… This does not mean that the material universe is an illusion, because both the implicate and the explicate play a role in creating reality. It simply means that we are like vortices in a river, unique but inseparable from the flow of nature… Such is the nature of the deep connectivity that exists between all things in a holographic universe… What then are UFOs and related phenomena? If [they] are merely psychic projections, how are we to explain the physical traces they leave behind? I propose that we are trying to hammer them into a picture of reality that is fundamentally incorrect. I suggest that UFOs are further evidence of this ultimate lack of division between psychological and physical worlds. They are indeed a product of the collective human psyche, but they are also quite real – something the human race has not learned to comprehend properly. A phenomenon that is neither subjective nor objective, but ‘omnijective…’ In a universe in which the consciousness of a physicist affects the reality of a subatomic particle, the attitude of a doctor affects whether or not a placebo works, and the mind of an experimenter affects the way a machine operates, we can no longer pretend that we are separate from that which we are studying. Instead of discovering particles, physicists may actually be creating them. As evidence [we may] cite a recently discovered subatomic particle called an anomalon, whose properties vary from lab to lab… An anomalon’s reality depends on who finds/creates it. In an omnijective universe…objectivity ceases to be possible.”

 -Michael Talbot, The Holographic Universe, pp. 78-81, 118, 297, 140

Walter Bowart's seminal book Operation Mind Control

The following interview took place in 2005 between Len Osanic of Black Op Radio and the late Walter Bowart, author of the groundbreaking 1978 book Operation Mind Control. It has been edited down for placement here on the blog. The full interview was transcribed for inclusion in The Mothman’s Photographer III: Meetings With Remarkable West Coast Witnesses Touched by Anomalous Activities of Interdimensional Entities, Archetypal Avatars, and the Eerie Yet Enlightening Phenomenon Known Infamously as “Mothman.” In this interview – one of Bowart’s last – Bowart alludes to the UFO phenomenon as being part of government mind control (i.e., MJ-12 as a precursor to MK-Ultra).

Len Osanic of Black Op Radio (LO): We are very pleased to have with us Mr. Walter Bowart, who is the author of a very historic book, Operation Mind Control. Tell us about Operation Mind Control.

Walter Bowart (WB): I started digging around. The German Gehlen organization became part of the CIA. I interviewed a lot of people from behind the Iron Curtain – a different breed of people. Fletcher Prouty became a friend of mine. Fletcher was one of those Yale boys. He flew Presidents Truman and Roosevelt around. After the war, the CIA was formed with new secrecy agreements asking generals and high-ranking military officers to sign this weird oath [sending them] to prison if they talked about any of these secrets. Prouty and his commanding officers said in no uncertain terms, “Get these Yalies, these little college boys out of here. We fought a war and won. We swore to uphold the Constitution and our oath is good. We don’t need a contract to sign.” Of course the contract was founded upon the National Security Act, which we’re still operating under. We have martial law in this country, and we have had it since WW II. It’s never been revoked.

LO: Colonel Prouty was one of the few people who wasn’t silenced by an oath. That’s an interesting point.

WB: He was an amazing man. He had a great heart, a great soul, and was an honest, forthright man. I dedicated Operation Mind Control to him and others like him [who] tell the truth. There’s not enough of that [nowadays]. Now we’re in worse shape, with Homeland Security and this [War on] “Terror.” It was hard enough to find the “communists” under the bed. How are we going to find the “terrorists” under the bed?

LO: [Especially] when it circles back to who’s financing them…

WB: Yes, the whole banking thing… Of course [the key to the program itself stays] on the run. As Canadian Marshall McLuhan [said] “When information travels at the speed of light, there can be no secrecy, no propriety – everything becomes transparent.” And that’s what is happening. That’s why we’re so aware of the cryptocracy. When the World Trade Center was bombed [and] hit by the airplanes on 9/11, I called my son who was in a very expensive private school. I asked, “What are you doing?” and he said, “Well, we have Study Hall, so we can watch the [attack] on television.” I asked, “Well, what’s the consensus opinion of the kids there in the Study Hall.”  He says, “Almost every one of them believes that elements of the United States blew up their own building to whip the gullible public into believing we were under attack.” That was a first impression. So there’s very little credibility in our government anymore. You can track that from the assassination of Kennedy. [That] is when it all turned. I remember the day I heard about the assassination of Kennedy, on my way to work in New York City. I was a bartender in my 20s, and I saw all of these Ukrainian and Polish people with their bright babushkas and fedoras. They were all clustered around a flagpole that was at half-mast. I walked up to them and asked, “What’s going on?” They said, “The president was shot. This is a coup d’etat.” They’d seen that happen in Europe in various ways. But it never occurred to the gullible American people that it would be so easy to have a coup d’etat. Ever since then, things have not gone right. We’ve lost our civil rights. This is a tyranny, a coup d’etat – a serious situation.

LO: Now there are [new] laws enacted to clamp down on whistleblowers.

WB: Yes, but of course people will continue… Any totalitarian society collapses, and ours is destined to collapse. We just cannot become a snitch culture. The American Dream was not founded on those principles, and it won’t succeed when we take away freedom. The greatest thing about America was its freedom, where a person had a right to freedom of thought. [Freedom of thought] wasn’t mentioned in the Constitution (freedom of speech was), but freedom of thought presupposes freedom of speech. Now they have a way of intruding on your very thought process: [the] mental health system. Ewen Cameron worked for the CIA. He was the president of the American Psychiatric Association, the Canadian Psychiatric Association, the head psychiatrist for the Nuremberg Trials [and] one of the biggest tyrants [ever. The] CIA paid $750,000 to each of the families of survivors [of Cameron’s heinous experiments].

LO: Yes… Horrendous stuff, a whole new level of depravity… What we’re talking about is people who have gone into hospitals with maybe a nervous twitch in their leg, a muscle spasm or something psychosomatic. [The doctors said] “We can’t find any physical problems so it must be something in your head.” Then [the victims were] drugged and put into psychic driving where they were unconscious for 30 days in a row [under] brainwashing techniques. This was MK-ULTRA, ARTICHOKE, and BLUEBIRD.

WB: And MK-DELTA… It goes on and on. Most researchers end up calling it “MK-ULTRA.” It was ultra-secret. It’s real interesting. Cognitive dissonance sets in when we go here among the 16,000 files that we got from the CIA back in the ’70s. There were two [files] on UFOs. When you read some of the documents that have been released since then, and put the whole thing together [you see a linked progression]. I discussed this with Prouty, who was hired as an expert witness to look at the original [MJ-12] documents. He said he didn’t see one that was a forgery. So you’ve got MJ-12 [then] MK ULTRA. Is that numbering process a coincidence? We have to get to the bottom of that secrecy [and] let it all come out. It will all eventually come out but it’s going to take a lot of citizens, devoting a lot of time badgering everybody, to get it out.

LO: [It is crucial] to make people aware of it. People are aware of Madison Avenue and advertising campaigns to shape opinion, but I think they’re really underestimating the strides that had been made not [just] to change your opinion but [to create assassins]. They’re making a new Manchurian Candidate film. It’s just staggering to think [about all] that was going on. Like you said, it was one of the best-kept secrets.

WB: Yes, it was amazing how well-kept it was, but about the UFO thing… I’ve been doing mind control [research] for 25 years. When I encountered these two files about the UFO phenomenon in the CIA mind control files, I just said, “Oh boy, I’m not going to go here because it’s hard enough [for people] to believe the mind control thing without bringing UFOs into it.” So I just ignored it. But now I’m beginning to [wonder]. Prouty had seen a lot of these things. He was very interested in UFOs. He said he had to debrief a lot of pilots who had seen UFOs over the years. I have an 8-hour unpublished videotape of his where he describes all of the UFO connections to intelligence… I’m getting rather bored with doing run-of-the-mill mind control [research] because it’s just repeating what I’ve known over and over again. The new stuff that I’m excited about [is] the UFO [stuff]. People actually start fistfights [over this] because the UFO community doesn’t want to hear about the mind control thing, and the mind control aficionados don’t want to hear about the UFO thing. These are [supposedly] mutually exclusive things. We’ve heard thousands of individuals telling stories about being abducted and not remembering it, using hypnosis to recover their memories later. [The high numbers of] people recovering from ritual abuse by many of these same MK-ULTRA doctors [created the need for] the False Memory Syndrome Foundation. [They have] put a lid on the whole thing and caused lawsuits. In California now, if you’ve ever been hypnotized, you cannot testify in a trial. You’re disqualified… The MK-ULTRA people knew that memories could be manipulated; amnesia is easy to induce. Martin T. Orne did a lot of research on amnesia. He recently passed away. Jolly West was in there. He recently passed away, too. That whole generation of villainous “mental health” [professionals is dying off].

LO: Today, the Internet gets a bad rap. [But] we are the Internet – a true form of democracy… We often don’t like everything we see there, but that is “the people” speaking.

WB: That’s right, and basically, it’s the last chance we’ve got. That may be why we’re seeing this reaction [from the cryptocracy] – trying to shut it down. We’ve got Homeland Security and all of these new Draconian laws. The Constitution is in shambles. The Bush administration is a tyranny. It’s more than mind control… The American public are [generally] “sheeple.” But it only takes 5% of the population to change [things].

LO: Well, I was a bit encouraged by what you mentioned about the number of people who reacted with suspicion after 9/11. In Canada, we usually get the impression that in certain educational environments Americans tend to be more aware, but the large cross-section of the U.S. is, I’m sorry to say, grossly ignorant. I don’t mean that insultingly, I just mean [that they are] seriously uneducated.

WB: I couldn’t believe [this when it happened, but] I bought a hamburger in Tucson, AZ and the lady didn’t know how to add! She couldn’t figure out what the change was, because I ordered something that wasn’t on her buttons that she had. I didn’t really fully understand what was going on. I told her how much change it was, and she trusted me and gave me the right amount of change. I looked back at the cash register and it didn’t have regular keys. It had large buttons with pictures of the [items] like you might see a 3 or 4 year old child working with. It would add up the amount and tell her – it  [actually] spoke – how much [the total was]. So they are hiring people who are totally illiterate and, of course, designing a system that will function with these people. Marshall McLuhan talked about post-literacy… McLuhan got most of his ideas, apparently, from James Joyce’s magnificent Finnegan’s Wake. It’s the ultimate in books… Recently, I’ve been working on a project to try to describe to people what the subconscious is and how it works with [waking] consciousness. It’s part of hypnotherapy, and it goes back to the Kahunas and the Berbers. It describes the technology for healing without touch. Maxwell Freedom Long wrote about it. It’s very important stuff [that] fits in with the information age… As we become more transparent, less like machines, we become more spiritual. We have our god-given gifts – what people call ESP. When we all become telepathic, it will be pointless to have a National Security Act or a Homeland Security Act.

LO: The [elites] are probably going to fight to keep that from happening.

WB: It’s almost like they’re trying to take us back to the 19th century. We’re trying to go back to the Fall [of Man. However] the technology’s already been invented; you can’t take it back. The cat’s out of the bag. Get on with the information age… The information economy is infinite, and money is obsolete. We’re into a whole new paradigm; quantum physics proves it. Go to IBM.com and look up their teleportation experiments. Look up their time travel [experiments]. They’ve proven it with photons. From a photon [you go] to an atom, to a molecule, and then, pretty soon, the whole family can go to another dimension on a Sunday afternoon.

LO: That would be a truly open environment. I can hardly wait.

WB: Well, that’s what I’m looking forward to, and that’s why I feel confident and optimistic. We’re seeing here the tyranny of the Bush administration and that whole gang of oil company executives and corrupt bankers, using the sweat equity of a nation – money that’s not backed by anything but the promissory note of the worker. The insurance society has got to go. It’s just Las Vegas gambling with a built-in 25% profit. But today you can’t run a business without insurance. You can’t get a loan without insurance. Instead of building a safety net of some kind for the elderly and indigent and sick and homeless, we’ve just tried to tell them insurance. It doesn’t work; it’s going to collapse – the collapse of the New Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was based upon roads [and water management. Unfortunately] we still are working with the road metaphor, the plumbing diagram, when in fact the laser ought to be our metaphor.

LO: Is there anything else that you wanted to bring up about your book?

WB: Just the cognitive dissonance that’s in our society. Eighty percent of the people in the U.S. apparently believe in UFOs. Talk about mind control… The aliens, the little greys (or whoever they are) described by abductees have the ability to erase your memories and control your mind. People [try to] say, “You can’t do that to me! I’ve got willpower. I can’t be made to do something against my will and without my knowledge. I can’t be hypnotized!” [Unfortunately] everybody can be hypnotized one way or another.

LO: You’ve [certainly] documented that, from the 1950s on.

WB: Yes, and now I know even more about it. As we become transparent [in the McLuhan sense] the subconscious becomes the ground upon which whatever figures are painted. The subconscious has always been way ahead of us. It’s in our dreams. Those of us who’ve had our dream state and waking [state both turned] on at the same time can describe in great detail what that’s like. It’s very disconcerting but it’s also a wonderful, terrible experience that is going to be our future. I toured the New Jersey Neuropsychiatric Institute in Princeton in the 1960s, interviewing Canadian Humphrey Osmond, who coined the term “psychedelic.” [He was a] wonderful, charming, energetic man [who] was helping schizophrenics using niacinamide and vitamin C. He told me, “We’re all going to be hearing voices, seeing visions, and experiencing ultradimensional and intradimensional phenomena, because schizophrenia is our next evolutionary step.” We’re going to have to come to terms with having our senses on full-blown, before we can explain who we are and what God-given rights we have.

LO: Yes, the subconscious is powerful and is being harnessed by [both] the military [and] private sectors. We’re talking about an evolution that is more multidimensional. I understand what you’re talking about myself. I’ve had lots of experiences and dreams along those lines. For example, I don’t know how many people have had parallel dreams – multiple experiences at the same time – but it gives a very good idea of schizophrenia. The mind is not very well understood at this point…

WB: It really is not. Look at the DSM-IV [Psychiatric Diagnostic Manual. It] is strongly influenced by the insurance companies and people having no experience in the richness of the human mind and spirit. That’s one of the things that the MK-Ultra victims taught me. Over and over I heard the phrase, “They didn’t mess with my mind; they messed with my soul.” I’ve begun to think in spiritual terms of what has gone on here. This is a horrible thing. [It is] just like the Inquisition, but more sophisticated and less visible. There’s no blood on the streets, but that makes it even more insidious. And of course the technology is now available to everyone. There’s a guy in New Mexico who is selling psychotronic weapons. He says, “I can boil my mother-in-law’s brain from 100 yards with this little handheld device that I can keep in a brown paper bag. If I just put it on low power, it scrambles her thoughts and her memory. If I turn it up full blast, it will [melt] her brain in the brain pan.” So I said, “Look, I’ll get a [test animal] or something. I want to film it.” He chickened out, because he thought animal protection would get him. His company is named Consumertronics. I heard that the governor of New Mexico personally made it his cause to put this guy out of business, because he was selling machines that cost $5000, which nobody was sure worked. But mind control has become a way for people with a variety of mental disorders or problems to escape responsibility. They [simply] say, “The voices I hear are from the government – they are doing this to me.” At a conference of psychiatrists, psychologists, and survivors of mind control, I learned that the ET phenomenon was very common – and [yet] suppressed – at the suggestion of the therapists. [Victims come to understand that the therapist will] never believe you about satanic ritual abuse if you [also] tell them about this alien stuff. The next wave of research is going to be looking at both the mind control effects and the so-called “alien abduction” effects. A friend of mine has made a chart comparing reports of ritual abuse, alien abduction, and government mind control. [All] are describing the bright lights, doctors in white coats, and medical tables. The descriptions are universal across the board. It [all] sounds like the same phenomenon. And the differences [too] are worth discussing, not [just] the similarities. It is the tip of a [mind control] research iceberg.

Garuda and Vishnu

In 2002, I visited Andee Boothe, noted Seattle acupuncturist, energy healer, and herbalist, because I was thinking of trying to recover some memories of my 1967 experiences with Tommy Burnham (where he woke up screaming that the “aliens” and Mothman had visited us). Andee gets a lot of referrals from doctors whose patients need help with UFO abductions and issues of spirit. Andee told me that she felt I was on some sort of cosmic mission that would someday bear fruit by bringing out important information regarding the phenomenon. On February 10, 2005, I sat down with her to discuss the type of work she does. This is an excerpt from that interview. The full interview appears in my third book, The Mothman’s Photographer III.

Andy Colvin (AC): Have you run across any other people who, like Tommy, claim that aliens were steering them towards working for an agency like NASA?

 Andee Booth (AB): Well, I know that a lot of NASA people worked around [WV] and that there were a bunch of weird events. For whatever reason, these “aliens” were very interested in the space program… [In general] if you don’t know what you’re looking for and you don’t have the “sight” for it, you won’t see things. They say that one of the reasons the Mayans were [successfully] attacked by the Spaniards was because the Mayans couldn’t see the ships. They’d never seen ships before. They just weren’t in their [paradigm]. When you held hands with your friend and moved into this vortex, this particular area [in his yard, you both] were actually able to see stuff. Tommy was told, “If you stand here, you’ll be able to see things.” I had another client who was able to see UFOs. She lived out near Mountain Home, Idaho, where there have been a lot of sightings. She said they just came up, like War of the Worlds, and then moved [on]. She had an interesting description of the [situation]. She claimed that that farm was in a vortex. She could see the UFOs simply by being there. She said later [the experiences] had “moved her mind” somehow. [From then on] she could see them, when nobody else could.

 AC: Just last week I spoke with a woman who remembers being born. Right before she was born, she feels as if a vortex of some kind came up from the ground below. It had to do with aliens. Somehow there was an energy force that came out of the ground and into the delivery room. She feels like she was genetically altered somehow by this. She’s got physical anomalies within her body, like double organs and such.

 AB: What’s interesting is that it really makes sense as far as physics [goes. If] you get near a certain energy field or vortex, it is possibly going to rearrange your RNA and DNA. Living next to a nuclear reactor might rearrange your RNA and DNA. There are lots of things that can do that. It’d be interesting to see what her children are like physically, emotionally, mentally – if they [have] abilities for “seeing.” Being next to some energy force certainly can alter us and open our consciousness. I know a couple of people who have really open consciousnesses, who are able to see [things] when nobody else can. One saw this “floating building” in Chicago with lights. He told his mom about it; nobody else could see it. Another gal was around the library at the University of Montana. Everybody else was gone on Thanksgiving break [when she saw] one of these same “buildings.” I know of two instances that really surprised me, where [witnesses had been hypnotized prior to seeing things].

 AC: Who were these hypnotized witnesses?

 AB: One was a friend and one was a client. They were put under hypnosis by people in some branch of the service, and then given really weird instructions. They were probably being experimented with in some way. I think the end instruction was to “suicide out.” Some branch of the service drugged these people and did this stuff to them. I know it [really] happened because these two people’s stories from [opposite ends of] the country were exactly the same. There was some really evil, dark stuff going on that was very dangerous. From [exactly] where in the government [it came] I did not know, but I knew it was bad and destructive. [Luckily] these two people made it out and got some cognition. They happened in totally separate [locales] but the experiences were very similar, and the guys were affected very similarly. Their lives were a mess. One had ferocious addictions. [Somehow] they were able to pull out and get their lives together.

Sasquatch and Thunderbird

 AC: I went back and bought some 1960s and ‘70s UFO magazines. If you look at the tenor of the stories back then, there was an obvious concern about mind control. You could go to a magazine stand back then and find several articles about nefarious, covert brainwashing operations. Unfortunately, attempts have been made to discredit that genre. Efforts were, and are, made to make it seem like it was all just sloppy research.

 AB: The other thing is that remote viewing was a [product] of the CIA. [It was] a covert operation that pretty much ruined the lives of the people [involved]. It tripped them out through space and time. They didn’t have the spiritual understanding to do it [properly]. They were recruited because they had talent and some innate abilities. They had to be able to see things other people couldn’t see. What happened is that these guys got hooked on remote viewing, like a drug. That’s what ate away their families and everything else. You could leave time and space and the present, and go float through eternity and see and experience everything. That kind of power [was intoxicating]. It was like tripping out on a drug, and that’s the part that got them.

 AC: Harriet and I were driving around in WV. When we got close to this secret installation, Sugar Grove, where her father worked during the Mothman days, she was recognizing landmarks even though she had never been there before. She recognized a rock formation and some other things. I speculated that maybe she had remote-viewed the area before but had forgotten it, sort of like a Manchurian Remote-Viewer. Maybe she had to be there physically in order to remember that she had already viewed it.

AB: Well, I’ll tell you what… I read a story about a guy who had pneumonia and [temporarily] died. He was in the service. He was not a “believer” or anything. He saw himself lift out of his body. The nurses forgot about him while he died, and he went up. This presence came to him, and he thought it was Jesus. It could have been anything, but it came and took him on a remote viewing [journey]. He really didn’t remember a lot of the things because it’s such a supernatural, nonlinear state. [But] later he recognized places when he was traveling across the country. He recognized places that this being had taken him. He hadn’t thought about them until then. I’ll bet that’s not so unusual.

Harriet experienced such a state when she clinically died while giving birth – twice.

AB: There’s this giant thing in you [Andy] that you’re connecting to and staying with. It’s going to get you back to history, the facts, and the truth. Some people may [ask] “what the heck is this about?” [But] there is something about it. You are on a mission, and I think something good will come out of it.

AC: Let’s talk a bit about the Flight of the Garuda book. An interesting dichotomy seems to be playing out in both East and West. In the East, the Dalai Lama is against honoring the Garuda and the beings that ride the Garuda, Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa. But the indigenous Tibetans feel Garuda is an earth deity that protects them. So we have a division in Tibet. In the U.S., we have a division between the Christians, who feel the Garuda is evil, and those who are open to other possibilities. What do you think, Andee?

AB: I have studied a lot about the Garuda and Dorje Shugden. The Dalai Lama doesn’t want Dorje to be used in matters of divination anymore. [However] other sects of Buddhism are saying, “We don’t want to mess with the original teachings.” They are holding onto their tradition, much like the Pope and the Vatican hold onto tradition. [They] are afraid to change it. The Dalai Lama brought in changes that came from his own intuition. It doesn’t mean that Dorje Shugden is “evil.” It just means that [the Dalai Lama] chose not to use that being anymore. Here, the Christians think anything not from the Bible is evil. They are spoon-fed [their understanding] and are afraid of everything. [Christianity] is basically a religion of fear. They’re afraid of sex. They’re afraid of anything that’s not like them. They’re afraid of Islam. They’re afraid of Buddhism. They have lots of fears [yet] traditional Christianity sees itself as the imperial holder of spiritual truth. It’s ridiculous. [They think that] anybody who’s willing to grow out of it [should] suffer. They feel threatened by [free thinkers, and] they’ll punish them for leaving the fold – which isn’t very Christian-like at all.

AC: Have you yourself seen anything paranormal?

AB: I’ve seen two ghosts peeling off of people. They looked like black and white photographs that you could see through. One gal was lying on my table and I was doing some muscle testing [on her]. I’ve taken a great deal of kinesiology classes, Bodytalk classes, allergy clearing classes, etc. I’ve taken all kinds of classes to be able to get in touch with the deepest part of the body-mind. I sensed that there was some sort of energy present in her that didn’t belong. I commanded it to leave and out walks this guy, kind of like this black and white photograph. He’s got long hair, a business suit and briefcase. He peeled right off of her and walked out the window. I said, “You know, the dangedest thing just happened…” And she said, “I felt something leave me.” I said, “It’s a guy in a business suit.” She goes, “Oh my god.” She’d always felt that her dad was invasive of her energy. She said, “My dad wore a business suit until the day he died. Even in retirement, he wore a business suit every day.” Then I had another gal whose ancestor peeled off of her and left. It just blew [my] mind because I didn’t believe in that sort of thing [until then. But] out the [ghosts] came. So I’ve had a lot of experience in these types of things, which people don’t think are real. I’ve also had many clients seeing ETs, angels, or spirits. [They] have somebody come and talk to them. I’ve [treated at least] three people [who had] something that they couldn’t see put “hands” on their shoulders and talk to them.

Garuda linking human spinal columns

AC: Dr. John Veltheim talks about relationships being the key to healing. Once you’re inside a particular belief system or physical body, you’re suddenly studying relationships.

AB: Western thinking is [generally based on the] “cause equals effect” dynamic of Aristotle – line A to B… Asian thinking is “systems thinking.” That’s how they discovered acupuncture. Soldiers would get stuck with an arrow in this part of their leg, and their opposite shoulder would get better. They started to see everything in systems. If we [affect] something here, something else over there will be affected. They also have ancient tradition and history based on how things affect people, not on chemically testing animals in the laboratory. [China] was a very Taoist society. They figured out all of the internal organs and the immune system without ever doing an autopsy. They believed the body was sacred; they never opened the body up. They figured out all the meridians, which are just messaging centers throughout the fascia. They have a much bigger view of things. They’re not as anal as Western medicine. They’re very effective because they see the big picture and how to utilize everything. I’ve been using some acupuncture treatments from the 1800s that work unbelievably well. A Korean monk came up with them. Dr. Yasui came up with Reiki, which was really just passing energy out of a divination experience. All of their stuff accesses the unconscious and the broader mind [rather] than narrow [linear thinking]. Western medicine has gotten too specialized. Even if you are, say, observing mouse ovaries do this or that when something else is stimulated, we also ought to look at what’s happening to the brain at the same time. I get people in here [all the time] who have something [wrong] yet every Western diagnostic test has come up normal. We find heavy metals, or viruses, or whatever and it changes the picture totally. Western medicine doesn’t know what to do if something (like fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue syndrome) doesn’t fit a [predetermined] paradigm. They just don’t have paradigms for certain things, because they can’t see the whole system. Western medicine is the best for emergency care [around] but that’s about [all].